A couple random questions for everyone

[Jaded Faith]

I was thinking about my rig in practice last night and had a couple random questions I wanted to feel out opinions on. My signal chain was as follows:

PRS Custom 22 > Dunlop Crybaby > Boss TU2 Tuner > ISP Decimator > BBE Boosta Grande > RM100 (loaded with Pete modded Clean/KH2/Pete modded 1086) > Xpression in Serial loop > MTS 2x12 with V30's

Here are a few questions:

1: For those of you who boost on the front end, in what applications do you specifically use it? The BBE is a week in on my signal chain. I have always been an amp distortion guy with nothing in front. I was hoping to slam the front end with this (not looking for a volume boost, for that I would have used it in the loop) and see some great results driving the tubes hard. Really all I am seeing is more compression, which is easy to visualize with the input LED's on the Xpression (ie: not compressed tones tend to have more movement between 2-3 LED's, compressed ones basically peg it out to whatever level I set it up to). I am not a fan of compressed distortion, preferring more "organic" feel to it. I typically run my gains between 12:00 and 2:30 to give you an idea of my settings, never dimed out. I am thinking this technique is better reserved for lower gain modules to push them a bit farther (say Tweed and JTM) rather than on all the time. I sort of dug it with the BBE knob on 9:00 and the gains rolled back on my modules, but not as much as just leaving it off.

2: Opinions on 12AX7's? I have exactly 70 preamp tubes in my possession (3 Randall amp rigs, 12 modules and spare combined) and lean towards the JJ ECC83S. But do the tubes tend to be on the dark side tone-wise? I typically have my Treble knobs at 2:00 - 3:00, which seems high if I was setting them by eyes instead of ears. Presence on the amps are also at noon. Visually, I would think this is a recipe for an icepick to the forehead, but it sounds good (all that matters in the end). What are everyone's spin on current production 12AX7-types? I found the JJ's very pleasing in gain and tone but maybe a tad dark, EH kind of boring and plain, Tung-Sol to be less gain than JJ's and a little more sparkle but unreliable lately, Ruby's I just can't get into (the Eden marked ones are okay though) and Sovtek's have been more enjoyable lately than I would like to think. Interested in those Shuguang Silver Dragons too. Anyone have input on those?

3: Where do you all bias your 6L6's and EL34L's? Running a pair of each in the RM100 and originally I had the 6L6's @ 30 and the EL34L's at 35. Cranked them up to 33 and 40 for the second half of practice. Not sure which I liked better. Preferences? I notice if the voltage is lower the tubes seem to bias lower (using the numbers on the Monster Power Supply in my rack as a reference). Knowing that, would it be wise to bias them right where you want them in a higher voltage room (say 122 Volts like you tend to see late at night) and then you know they wouldn't be too cold when you get into a room where the power is tapped hard (say around 115-117 volts)?

Thanks in advance,
Rob

 

[KillTone]

Hey Rob:

I can't respond to your whole post, but I have a few thoughts. My rig is very similar to yours: RM100, Deluxe, Pete moded Plexi and Top Boost and KH2, Bad Horsie, Boss Tuner and SD-1 for added gain. I have a Roctron Replifex in the series loop and a Avatar 2x12 with V-30's.

My experience with the RM100 so far (about 7 gigs) is that it is a fairly dark sounding amp, regardless of the tubes you use ( I have tried many). Some tubes brighten it up a little, but it is still dark. The Pete mods help because they clean up a lot of the muddyness that comes along with a darker tone. I have found that I also need to turn up the treble and presence a little higher (visually) than I thought would be necessary. I guess that is just the nature of the amp.

I only kick on the SD1 when I need a little more gain or compression. I have it set up as a signal booster (level knob cranked and drive knob almost all the way down). I'd say my experience is pretty similar to yours - more compression slightly more gain, but not something you would want on all the time.

Regarding tubes, I have recently gotten into NOS preamp tubes and I find them to be a big improvement over new production tubes in certain positions. I use them in the input and driver position on the chasis and in V1 in the modules. You will really notice the difference with clean sounds, they will be warmer and more pleasing to the ear. I have not noticed a great improvement with NOS tubes in higher gain modules. NOS tubes can be expensive and I don't recommend using them throughout all positions and all modules.

When I first got my RM100, I started worrying that my hearing was damaged because it sounded so dark/muddy and I could not improve it much. But after putting next to my Mark IV I realized that it was the amp, not my hearing - although after playing for 30 years and gigging for 25 I am sure my hearing is not as good as it should be.

Ron

 

[Jaded Faith]

Ron,
Thank you very much for the reply! I have several MTS amp setups, but nothing else to A/B it with for a reference. Your Mesa comparison makes me feel a lot better about the overall darkness of the amp. It is a total "dial with the ears, not the eyes" thing.

Your reply on the signal boost is right on with what I was experiencing. I think I'll keep it as a option, but not use it all the time. If I am rolling with a true mid gain module I can see where it will serve a purpose.

Any other replies are welcome, particularly on the bias settings.
Rob

 

[KillTone]

By the way, Rob - are your other MTS rigs as dark as the RM-100? I have read posts about the RM-50 sounding much different.

Also, for anyone else having this problem, the Turley mods are the way to go with this amp. I was about to sell my RM-100 because it was just too dark/muddy, but the Turley mods make a night and day difference. If you are thinking about it, stop thinking and just do it.

 

[Jaded Faith]

My RM50HB is a little different sounding, but I can't be sure how much of that is the amp versus the tubes. The RM50 currently has a pair of 5881's (Audio Glassic) and the RM100 has a pair of 6L6's and a pair of EL34L's (both JJ's) in it. My RM4 and RT2/50 has 5881's and EL34 (both Tung Sol's) and runs in switching mode. I would say they are all equally dark, but the Tung Sol's do brighten them up a little. Overall, I would say there is a commonality among the three. Our old guitarist had an Egnater MOD 50 rig and it was similar as well.

I totally agree about Pete's mods as well. I have 8 modules he has worked on and they actually were so good I sold off my Egnater singles in favor of them. The three modules he hasn't worked on are all for good reasons: my Tweed is my "project" module that I mod a little at a time for my own enjoyment and the KH2 and soon to have KH3 (2 more days!) are the best Randall modules I have heard right out of the box. Pete does work magic.

Interesting side note: I have my first gig tonight with the RM100. I typically take out the RM4 rack, but it is 94 lbs and the RM100 was an attractive alternative now that I wired all the MIDI up for the stage. I spent 2 hours swapping tubes in and out and cleaning all the sockets and I think it is tuned up the best I have heard it yet now. Wound up with a JJ ECC83S gold pin in V1, a JJ ECC83S in the loop tube and a balanced ECC83S in the phase inverter slot on the head. The Clean has a JJ ECC82 in and TungSol 12AX7, the KH2 has a JJECC803's and TungSol 12AX7 and the 1086 has a JJECC83S and Tung Sol 12AX7. Those tube combinations made a notable improvement. The JJ's gave the thick grind and gain I wanted with the TungSol adding a 3D or airy quality that a second JJ wasn't adding. Should be a good gig tonight!

 

[tung]

1: For those of you who boost on the front end, in what applications do you specifically use it? The BBE is a week in on my signal chain. I have always been an amp distortion guy with nothing in front.

I like to boost the front with the gain always OFF on any of the boost pedals I use. I'm like you because I also go for the amp gain, and usually don't like that pedal sound and the added compression you get from that.
My favorite boost pedals have always been the ones that are transparent. I got a bunch, including the original TS-808, TS-9 etc.. None of them are used right now because the Xotic AC Booster is doing exactly what I want from a boost pedal. I'm actually increasing the amp voltage more than getting extra gain, making the sound much fuller and more of it.

2: Opinions on 12AX7's? I have exactly 70 preamp tubes in my possession (3 Randall amp rigs, 12 modules and spare combined) and lean towards the JJ ECC83S. But do the tubes tend to be on the dark side tone-wise?

Yeah, you hit the nail on the head with your assessment of the tube types here. I prefer the JJs, but your idea of mixing the JJ and the Tung Sol in the modules is cool, I gotta try that. I find the Tung Sol to be clean and "3D", but not as dirty as the JJ.

3: Where do you all bias your 6L6's and EL34L's? Running a pair of each in the RM100 and originally I had the 6L6's @ 30 and the EL34L's at 35. Cranked them up to 33 and 40 for the second half of practice. Not sure which I liked better.

I'm trying to experiment with this too, but just couldn't get the reading on my tester to work :evil:

 

[dboy5150]

Rob, what do you think about the el34/6l6 mix? i just bought my rm100 two weeks ago, runs a new set of jj6l6's at 32mv bias, did my first gig last night at good volume and wow...still buzzin' from the tonal nirvana. but curious as to what a mix would sound like, or even a full swap for el34's?
recon i could just lay down $35 and buy a pair too...

 

[Jaded Faith]

I think I like that mix of tubes, but I have a couple options I am toying with right now. The RT 2/50 had a pair of TS 5881's and a pair of TS EL34B's in switching mode, sounds awesome. The RM50 is running a pair of Audio Glassic 5881's (anyone heard of these tubes before? They came in my RM100 second hand and I can't find anything about them) and it sounds good on it's own. The 6L6/EL34L combo in the RM100 is a great blend, since you get the benefits of both tube types. Worth trying for sure.

I was having a love/hate thing with that amp the past few practices, but toyed with the gain staging a bit and think I have it. I run a Xpression in the Serial loop. I was setting the module volumes near noon or 1:00 so that they lit up the -3db led on the input of the Xpression. I have tried adjusting the volume of the amo two ways from there. One was to set the master to noon and control the volume by the output knob on the Xpression. I also tried setting the Xpression output to noon and adjusting the volume with the amp master. Yesterday I also tried rolling the modules volumes down to 11:00, turning the Xpression input up to make up the difference and both the methods for adjusting the amp volume. I think the amp sounded a bit better this way than running the modules hotter. More in control and less noise too. I know I prefer preamp distortion over poweramp for the hard rock stuff, so I think this may be the new key for me. Also thinking of trying the Xpression in the Parallel loop next time with the effects knob all the way up. Should be similar to the using the serial loop with a little more of the original signal in the mix I think. Worth a shot.