Cap types- let's talk orange, sozo, wima, silver mica's

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Kapo_Polenton

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I notice in a lot of module pictures I see on line or on ebay that Gigmods and Friedman use orange drops in spots, others use WIMA for size and other reasons... my "brownstone" mod has a small sozo. What are the sonic differences that one might expect from changing say all the .022 uf caps in a Mr. Scary with orange drops of the same value?? How about a ceramic 470pf cap vs. the blue or green caps of the same value? Are silver mica usually associated with more detail or brightness? How about carbon comp in spots? I always figured carbon film is close enough and tends not to have as much of a drift in value or noise as a composite. What tonally can one notice with carbon composite in certain spots?

I'm in the mood to tinker..
 
If anyone is interested..this guy doesn't have chops but the sound differences really is much more than i thought!!! I am going to stick with sozos I think: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_LVulk5MUg they are big and need to be fit vertically but the sounds might explain why my plexi clone sounded so good when i built it a few years back with all sozos.. anyway, still interested in the topic so input from JF or SG or anyone would be good.

thanks
 
The key thing to remember when you ask these questions is that the parts make up a circuit. What you use and where makes up a greater whole. Just replacing all the parts from one manufacturer with those from another like the video you posted isn't always the answer. In some cases it will certainly make an audible difference, others hardly a thing at all.

To answer your specific questions:

- Orange Drops can have a certain body and edge, but remember they have several series of caps with different compositions and characteristics.

- The blue and green 470pf caps I believe you are referring to are all ceramics as well. Ceramics can add a grainy-ness or grit to the sound. Remember these are guitar amps, not hi-fi. Those terms are desirable when discussing guitar tones. An amplified guitar sound with very little THD would be flat and uninspiring. Much like plugging your guitar straight into a channel on a PA mixer.

- Silver Mica can be considered detailed and bright, but it depends what you are comparing it to. My advice would be to only use them in parts of the circuit.

- Carbon Comps largest contribution to an equation is they tend to distort in a pleasing way. They have high drift, pulse power, variability and excess noise. But remember what I said in the ceramic cap bullet: THD is part of what makes a circuit interesting. To see these characteristics at their most extreme, they would ideally be used in parts of the circuit where the voltage is highest.

It was pointed out in another post that anyone inquiring about these topics (I believe it was in reference to the tone stack) should take the time to map things out and actually learn the circuit. I strongly encourage that. It will give you a much better educational exercise rather than a free lunch of sorts. Those of us in the know spent many hours learning this stuff, conducting our own tests and forming our own opinions based on the results. I have no issue providing guidance to someone that spent the time and put forth the effort but hit a brick wall.
 
It was pointed out in another post that anyone inquiring about these topics (I believe it was in reference to the tone stack) should take the time to map things out and actually learn the circuit. I strongly encourage that. It will give you a much better educational exercise rather than a free lunch of sorts. Those of us in the know spent many hours learning this stuff, conducting our own tests and forming our own opinions based on the results. I have no issue providing guidance to someone that spent the time and put forth the effort but hit a brick wall.

I can def. respect that. Thanks for the heads up! To do this i think it is prob best to start with a schematic of the RM100 so I could learn how the modules interact with that first stage in the amp. From there, flipping the PCB and tracing it would be the next logical step.
 
I agree fully. I am going to try to dig around tonight to see if I have a schematic of the RM100 for you. If it helps get you started, V1 on the amp chassis is a common gain stage to all modules. Always think of that as the first gain stage when looking at any other schematics for comparison.
 
thanks Rob, that is helpful to know. I thought that might be the case so I'll just need to use the V2 and V3 on the modules as a reference when looking at a 2203/2205/JMP layout or schematic. :idea: If you can find the amp schematic that will be great to know so I can look at the power section too.
 
Jaded Faith said:
The key thing to remember when you ask these questions is that the parts make up a circuit. What you use and where makes up a greater whole. Just replacing all the parts from one manufacturer with those from another like the video you posted isn't always the answer. In some cases it will certainly make an audible difference, others hardly a thing at all.

To answer your specific questions:

- Orange Drops can have a certain body and edge, but remember they have several series of caps with different compositions and characteristics.

- The blue and green 470pf caps I believe you are referring to are all ceramics as well. Ceramics can add a grainy-ness or grit to the sound. Remember these are guitar amps, not hi-fi. Those terms are desirable when discussing guitar tones. An amplified guitar sound with very little THD would be flat and uninspiring. Much like plugging your guitar straight into a channel on a PA mixer.

- Silver Mica can be considered detailed and bright, but it depends what you are comparing it to. My advice would be to only use them in parts of the circuit.

- Carbon Comps largest contribution to an equation is they tend to distort in a pleasing way. They have high drift, pulse power, variability and excess noise. But remember what I said in the ceramic cap bullet: THD is part of what makes a circuit interesting. To see these characteristics at their most extreme, they would ideally be used in parts of the circuit where the voltage is highest.

It was pointed out in another post that anyone inquiring about these topics (I believe it was in reference to the tone stack) should take the time to map things out and actually learn the circuit. I strongly encourage that. It will give you a much better educational exercise rather than a free lunch of sorts. Those of us in the know spent many hours learning this stuff, conducting our own tests and forming our own opinions based on the results. I have no issue providing guidance to someone that spent the time and put forth the effort but hit a brick wall.

Very interesting! This is a great post. Can you use LEDs in the circuit and if so, what effect do they have on tone?
 
Jaded Faith said:
LED's are Light Emitting Diodes and can be applied in any module as you would find a diode used in any other amp.

My bad. You're talking about caps and I'm talking about diodes. Sorry! I know in pedals LEDs give a different flavor than regular diodes so I was curious what effect they had in modules. However, it's off topic and doesn't really apply to this thread.
 
speed2dirt said:
Jaded Faith said:
LED's are Light Emitting Diodes and can be applied in any module as you would find a diode used in any other amp.

My bad. You're talking about caps and I'm talking about diodes. Sorry! I know in pedals LEDs give a different flavor than regular diodes so I was curious what effect they had in modules. However, it's off topic and doesn't really apply to this thread.

There are no diodes in the signal path in any of the MTS-modules. Diodes are typically used for signal clipping in overdrive/distortion pedals, where the differences in forward voltages in LEDs and regular diodes affects the clipping. Some amps use diodes for clipping as well, but none of the MTS-modules - at least that I have seen.
 
You can also use an led to set the bias voltage of a pre stage. I believe it makes for a very transparent stage.
 

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