Recto vs Grail

MTS module area including module modifications

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MetalZ
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Post by MetalZ » Fri May 11, 2007 10:01 pm

NuSkoolTone wrote:
TheAbomb12 wrote:All I could tell you is, if all it took to change the recto mod to sound like the Grail was to switch out C3, R1, R2, and R3; not only would everyone do it, but they would be praising the Recto as one of the better modules POST soldering operation.
Well that's kind of what we were thinking. Really we just need someone to take a modded recto and a grail side by side.

So far we're convinced it's a tweaked recto with a pretty faceplate.

Anyone have both to do the recto mod and compare?
lol you beat me by a minute
M

TheAbomb12
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Post by TheAbomb12 » Fri May 11, 2007 10:57 pm

Well that's kind of what we were thinking. Really we just need someone to take a modded recto and a grail side by side.

So far we're convinced it's a tweaked recto with a pretty faceplate.

Anyone have both to do the recto mod and compare?
Well, your welcomed to try. But I honestly think there is more to the tone difference than the circuit board layout. Obviously the Grail and Recto will have VERY similar layouts, because they are both *trying* to be Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifiers. I'm fairly sure that one of the components is different enough (although not visibly) to produce that tone change. Someone with more expertise than me can chime in to either confirm or disprove that, though, because I am by no means an expert. It would be great though for it to be possible to turn a recto into a grail- and I would very much like to see a modding project accomplish this.
Last edited by TheAbomb12 on Sat May 12, 2007 8:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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jmgman70
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Post by jmgman70 » Sat May 12, 2007 8:18 am

Sometimes all it takes is one or two part value changes to go from crap to "GRAIL" not that this is the case but I don't have either mod to see but looks like a great start in the DIY process....

NuSkoolTone
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Post by NuSkoolTone » Sat May 12, 2007 9:27 am

TheAbomb12 wrote: Well, your welcomed to try. But I honestly think there is more to the tone difference than the circuit board layout. Obviously the Grail and Recto will have VERY similar layouts, because they are both *trying* to be Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifiers. I'm fairly sure that one of the components is different enough (although not visibly) to produce that tone change.
I plan on doing the mod. I'm so confident that they WILL be the same that I wouldn't buy the grail without a return policy. Here's the thing, ALL the components are marked as to what they are. These are mass produced items and not boutique, they're not scratching the tops of op amps and such to hide what they're doing. Unless there are components under the PCB that no one knows of (Doubt it) there's really not much more to tell. Also since these are mass produced they're looking for cost efficiency too. If a modded recto makes George happy why WOULDN'T they use it?

Also to quote another thread:
JKD wrote:'course I should've also noted under v1 on Grail it says

RANDALL 6/4/05
MODU RECTO
REV 1.10

:D
Check out the whole thread here: http://mtsforum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?t=1890
This is where you write stuff no one reads anyway.

TheAbomb12
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Post by TheAbomb12 » Sat May 12, 2007 9:53 am

Well cool. Sounds like you guys know exactly what you're doing. I hope it pans out well, because when I build up my MTS setup again I might be able to save some money on a good Rectifier tone.
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Chad
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Post by Chad » Sat May 12, 2007 10:37 am

A few weeks ago, I did the R1, R2, & R3 changes to my Recto module. Also, converted C3 to .001u instead of the Grail cap value. The Grail cap value just seems TOO low.

I don't have a Grail to compare to. But I'd be willing to ship my module to a reputable, somewhat high post count member who has a Grail module....and a decent set of ears. All I'd ask is that they pay the round trip shipping costs in exchange for being able to play around with my modded Recto module free of charge for a few days.

Let me know if interested. I'd do this in trust and settle up the exact shipping charges for both ways after the module arrives back to me safe and sound.

BTW, I would ship the module without tubes. This way after giving the Grail a good listen (or possibly even making a recording), then you could remove its tubes and put them in the modded Recto module. Hopefully, this would even things up as much as possible.

JKD
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Post by JKD » Sun May 20, 2007 4:13 pm

This is not the same but I a/d'd the Recto and Grail quite a bit this morning with the same tube combination in each.

The Grail (to me) sounded a little more modern and harsh sounding..but only a touch...I had to dial back the treble about 10% to get 'em closer.

I think if you modded the Grail to have c3=0.001uf then it would sound better IMO...stock is 1/2 that @ 0.0005uf I believe...honestly so similar to the Recto (to my ears)..maybe if I went much louder it'd be different.

Here are the settings from my other thread:

Gain - 2 o'clock
Bass - 12 o'clock
Mid - 11:30 o'clock
Treble 1 to 2 o'clock (taste)
Level - 10 o'clock
Bright On

Modded with a brown looking 0.001uf cap. Ruby 12ax7c in v1 and JJ ECC83s in v2.

KT77s at 32, Master on 2 o'clock into my Hotplate at -8db thru to Mesa Recto 2x12 v30s. I can't recall the tube in v1 of the head...might be an RCA NOS Long blackplate ax7

Boosted with Keeley SD-1 - Level 12 o'clock, Tone 12 o'clock, Drive off.

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