Mic Placement and the "shavering" method.

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Daryl
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Mic Placement and the "shavering" method.

Post by Daryl » Sat Dec 18, 2010 4:27 am

Hey guys,
Check out this article posted in December 2010 Premier Guitar. It is a method for finding the perfect mic placement. It is a pretty interesting technique for taking the guesswork out of mic placement. It is called the "shavering" technique. I thought it was kind of a cool method and so I'm passing it along.
Here it is: http://digital.premierguitar.com/premie ... 2_1/#pg53u
Tell me what you think. If you have any other methods please share.

:twisted: :shock: :twisted:
?The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination.?-Albert Einstein

MadHatter_Lurch
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Post by MadHatter_Lurch » Sat Dec 18, 2010 5:24 am

That sounds pretty dang cool! I will have to try that the next time I record... I am frightened what my hiss would sound like. Thanks for sharing this.
The little bit of knowledge I have I will impart. When I go to record my guitar, I use a 3 mic setup. The first mic is set right at the grill angled into the side of the top left cone, not t dead on. The next mic I use is about 4-5 feet away and pointing straight to the middle of the 4X12. The last mic I use I put behind the amp about 3 foot high. In my experienced this really captures the tone pretty well. If you would like to hear a song I recored with this method, I have no idea where to post it so just pop me a PM with your E-Mail and I will send it along. Cheers! I hope this helps some people!

Peace!
~Are hats supposed to be recorded?
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bduersch
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Post by bduersch » Sat Dec 18, 2010 8:33 am

Interesting article... thanks for posting the link!

I used to be super type-A about mics and placement when recording guitar: I, too, used a multi-mic setup (typically a Blue dynamic mic on the speaker cap and a Cascade ribbon mic near the edge of the cone--took a small eternity to get 'em aligned right to prevent phase issues).

Recently I started using IR's, and given the quality (much less noise) + consistency + ease of setup + ability to "tweak" the speaker/mic placement during the playback process, I doubt I'll ever go back to using mics in the studio again.

--B

Daryl
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Post by Daryl » Sat Dec 18, 2010 2:35 pm

bduersch wrote:
Recently I started using IR's, and given the quality (much less noise) + consistency + ease of setup + ability to "tweak" the speaker/mic placement during the playback process, I doubt I'll ever go back to using mics in the studio again.
What do you mean by "IR"?
?The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination.?-Albert Einstein

MadHatter_Lurch
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Post by MadHatter_Lurch » Sat Dec 18, 2010 4:30 pm

Yes please tell us about this. I am very amateur about recording, just rely on a bit of OCD to get a mix to sound good. I need to learn about recording so I will have a slight leg up when my band records something.

Peace!
Many Thanks from the Not-Yet-Recording Hat
I guess a rig goes here....

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m0jo
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Post by m0jo » Sun Dec 19, 2010 5:54 am

Daryl wrote:
bduersch wrote:
Recently I started using IR's, and given the quality (much less noise) + consistency + ease of setup + ability to "tweak" the speaker/mic placement during the playback process, I doubt I'll ever go back to using mics in the studio again.
What do you mean by "IR"?
IR = Impulse Response

This is when you play an "impulse" (basically a sweeping tone) through a poweramp and cab and record it like you would your guitar.
Some software then analyses the recorded tone with the original, creating a model of the reverb and tonality (basically the EQ and verb).

This means you can then send your preamp through an IR-plugin, which gives it the EQ and reverb of the poweramp+cab+mic .. voila, awesome tone!
You can buy or find a lot of IR's on the internet, meaning that you don't have to make your own.
www.Recabi.net is one, GuitarHacks Impulses are good free ones (PM me if you want those).

I practice and record at home with IR's, sounds damn good!
The only problem is that it doesn't capture the overdrive of the poweramp (although a part of that overdriving is just a change in EQ.. which the IR does capture).

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bduersch
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Post by bduersch » Sun Dec 19, 2010 8:50 am

Mojo did a good job of describing what IR's do... I first got into 'em when I got my Axe-FX because I could never find any stock speaker/mic combinations that worked for me. So Redwirez ( http://www.redwirez.com ) had a free IR trial, I downloaded those (since they were compatible with the Axe-FX), and immediately became hooked... turned around and bought half a dozen different cabs through them. I've since sold the Axe-FX, but I continue to use the Redwirez IR's through one of the plug-ins in Sonar for recording purposes.

I'm not sure what it would take to use IR's live (not sure what sort of devices aside from the Axe-FX support them, unless you want to gig with a PC as part of your rig), but they are a fantastic time-saver in the studio. I used to spend a lot of time working mic placement in the studio... now I just run a line out from the amp straight into the recording PC. (Or better yet, the slave out on Egnater/Randall amps adds a little power amp "flavor" to the signal as well.) Then during playback, I can switch on the fly between hundreds of cabinet + mic + mic placement options until I find one that sits best in the mix. Win-win... less time spent setting up for recording in the studio, better sounding guitar tracks as a result.

Assuming you have a PC with a plug-in that supports IR's (typically called a convolution plug-in), you're good to go... download the free IR trial pack from Redwirez and give it a shot.

--B

MadHatter_Lurch
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Post by MadHatter_Lurch » Sun Dec 19, 2010 4:56 pm

wow this is just some amazing info right here. so tell me, are IRs just a program on the computer or are they like a box that usb or controller in to your computer? You see a while back, I was doing some recording for a band and the singer(friend of mine) plugged in a handheld recorder from one side of the room into my computer's line in (power from the other side of the room) without asking me. My onboard sound card(amazing quality oddly) is now fried for recording purposes. So would the IR work for this computer, or would I jsut have to use it on the Laptop(the only way I can currently record) and if not.... Hey anyone know a good yet affordable audio interface for a computer? Thanks!

Peace!
~Fried Hate
I guess a rig goes here....

RM100 - 6550s (just awesome)
MadClean module (will one day become V-10)
A.F.K.A.T. (work in progress... love it!)

Dean Mach 5

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crankyrayhanky
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Post by crankyrayhanky » Sun Dec 19, 2010 5:14 pm

I'm going to try the shavering, but if I have to listen to see which hiss I like better, I may as well listen to a strummed guitar chord.

I never liked too much multimicing from a distance, too many variables present to screw up the sound. A close mic'ed ribbon in a large room will give plenty of room tone, even on a cranked up amp. If you want to multi mic, put 2 mics, say 57s, right next together parallel to each other- that is a killer tone. European style will often angle 1 57 45 degrees- but I haven't had much success with that method.

When I close mic, I come away happy 99% of the time, when I distance/mulimic, I am unhappy 99%- unless it's for a trashy effect- then I have full satisfaction

Daryl
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Post by Daryl » Sun Dec 19, 2010 7:50 pm

m0jo wrote: IR = Impulse Response

This is when you play an "impulse" (basically a sweeping tone) through a poweramp and cab and record it like you would your guitar.
Some software then analyses the recorded tone with the original, creating a model of the reverb and tonality (basically the EQ and verb).

This means you can then send your preamp through an IR-plugin, which gives it the EQ and reverb of the poweramp+cab+mic .. voila, awesome tone!
You can buy or find a lot of IR's on the internet, meaning that you don't have to make your own.
www.Recabi.net is one, GuitarHacks Impulses are good free ones (PM me if you want those).

I practice and record at home with IR's, sounds damn good!
The only problem is that it doesn't capture the overdrive of the poweramp (although a part of that overdriving is just a change in EQ.. which the IR does capture).
Killer post Mojo,
That lays it out perfectly. :D
I also checked out the link you contributed and it is cool as well.
At: http://www.recabi.net/trybuy/
You can download the demo which is free to use in commercial recording projects. It is only 60 of the 2000 sounds on the full version, but that is pretty cool. Another thing is that right now the full version is on sale for $14.99(about 11.37Euros) which is 80% off of the regular $69.99(about 53.10Euros) price.
?The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination.?-Albert Einstein

Shinozoku
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Post by Shinozoku » Sun Dec 19, 2010 9:54 pm

MadHatter_Lurch wrote:wow this is just some amazing info right here. so tell me, are IRs just a program on the computer or are they like a box that usb or controller in to your computer? You see a while back, I was doing some recording for a band and the singer(friend of mine) plugged in a handheld recorder from one side of the room into my computer's line in (power from the other side of the room) without asking me. My onboard sound card(amazing quality oddly) is now fried for recording purposes. So would the IR work for this computer, or would I jsut have to use it on the Laptop(the only way I can currently record) and if not.... Hey anyone know a good yet affordable audio interface for a computer? Thanks!

Peace!
~Fried Hate
I talk alot to a guy in Finland who uses Cab Impulses (basically same thing we're talking about here) with his ENGL E 530 to decent effect. If I recall, you basically just need an interface to go between your amp's Slave Out to the computer, and then the IRs or Cab Impulses are a program that does all that funky jive m0jo just said.
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Post by Julia » Mon Dec 20, 2010 12:42 pm

Recabinet is VST. If you have a VST host you're good. If you have an RTAS host you're good with Mellowmuse IF you record only in 24 bit 44.1 kHz. You could use one of the VST plugs if you have a VST/RTAS wrapper.

If you record in any higher sample rate you'll need something a bit more. I ended up with Waves IR1. This one also has venue IRs included in the pack, so basically you can use it on an AUX track and make it sound like you recorded in xxx professional recording studio, or even in Philharmonik Hall in Berlin. Or inside your car.
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Post by khingpynn » Tue Dec 21, 2010 7:53 am

Great thread I've learned some new and valuable info.

I'm definetly trying shavering.

m0jo
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Post by m0jo » Tue Dec 21, 2010 9:21 am

MadHatter_Lurch wrote:wow this is just some amazing info right here. so tell me, are IRs just a program on the computer or are they like a box that usb or controller in to your computer? You see a while back, I was doing some recording for a band and the singer(friend of mine) plugged in a handheld recorder from one side of the room into my computer's line in (power from the other side of the room) without asking me. My onboard sound card(amazing quality oddly) is now fried for recording purposes. So would the IR work for this computer, or would I jsut have to use it on the Laptop(the only way I can currently record) and if not.... Hey anyone know a good yet affordable audio interface for a computer? Thanks!

Peace!
~Fried Hate
"Impulse response" the name says it, this is how the room and poweramp/mic etc. reacts to the signal, the response to the impulse.
The impulse response itself only holds that information. (it's a wav file of a few kb)

So what you need is a plugin (in Reaper, Cubase or whatever) that can load impulses and affect the sound with how the impulse dictates it should.
When send a preamp signal through that plugin it basically acts as a poweramp+cab+mic simulator.

So yeah it basically is software.
But there are some hardware boxes that can load impulses.
Like the Line 6 stuff, Fractal Axe-FX, Digitech GSP (beta firmware).
That way you can run to the PA board with impulses as cab sim :) (or just practice through headphones)

Salvation Mods Twinface, Mash-all+, Sloogie, Mu?eca, Shiver (Facelift), modded XTC, stock Recto
Randall RM4 - Randall RT2/50 - Randall RM22
TT-Cabs REX V212


www.sparkplugmusic.nl

MadHatter_Lurch
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Post by MadHatter_Lurch » Tue Dec 21, 2010 10:04 am

m0jo wrote:
MadHatter_Lurch wrote:wow this is just some amazing info right here. so tell me, are IRs just a program on the computer or are they like a box that usb or controller in to your computer? You see a while back, I was doing some recording for a band and the singer(friend of mine) plugged in a handheld recorder from one side of the room into my computer's line in (power from the other side of the room) without asking me. My onboard sound card(amazing quality oddly) is now fried for recording purposes. So would the IR work for this computer, or would I jsut have to use it on the Laptop(the only way I can currently record) and if not.... Hey anyone know a good yet affordable audio interface for a computer? Thanks!

Peace!
~Fried Hate
"Impulse response" the name says it, this is how the room and poweramp/mic etc. reacts to the signal, the response to the impulse.
The impulse response itself only holds that information. (it's a wav file of a few kb)

So what you need is a plugin (in Reaper, Cubase or whatever) that can load impulses and affect the sound with how the impulse dictates it should.
When send a preamp signal through that plugin it basically acts as a poweramp+cab+mic simulator.

So yeah it basically is software.
But there are some hardware boxes that can load impulses.
Like the Line 6 stuff, Fractal Axe-FX, Digitech GSP (beta firmware).
That way you can run to the PA board with impulses as cab sim :) (or just practice through headphones)
Thank you awesome answer! :-D so I still need an interfeace. Whinozoku just turned me on to This I will save up for it, because the only way I have to get the sound to my computer is to go 1/4" to1/8" cable to my mic/linein. This thread has been amazing and insightful! I know it isn't my thread but thank you everyone for the info!!!

Peace!
Hat by any other name is still Mad
I guess a rig goes here....

RM100 - 6550s (just awesome)
MadClean module (will one day become V-10)
A.F.K.A.T. (work in progress... love it!)

Dean Mach 5

My Rig Topic

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