Recto vs Grail

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MetalZ

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I have a recto mod where r1,r2,r3, are already 150 ohms and tried the c3 cap change. In the Grail topic it looks like these are the only items that differ from a Grail mod. Can this be true? GL's name and a new face plate and c3 cap. Oh yeah, 50-100 bucks more depending where you shop. Please, anyone with both mods do a comparison and let us know. Mine came with ruby's (used) and I switched to tung sol's. It seems a little gainyer now. M
 
I've got the ( stock ) Grail and Recto and I find the Grail to have more clarity and a smoother clip... still aggressive tho... overal I find the Grail has a large wide spectrum and the Recto sounds thin in comparison... Not that its a bad thing because I find the Recto has it's place and sounds overal pretty good.
I run the stock jj as I have tried several N.O.S. Sylvania, RCA, Ratheon, Tung Sol, and GE... plus several modern tubes such as EH, Sovtek, Groove Tube and I find the jj to be of good quality and tone that suites this preamp. The recto has EH tubes.

Khing
 
Is the difference between your recto and grail modules just the C3 cap value? or.... is there some other voodoo going on? My recto has mostly the rectangular blue caps and the grail pic has the orange? fat caps. M
 
i can't get the recto to sound very good at all, it just seems to have an emptiness to it and the bass is flat and flubby, if you turn the gain down its not a bad clean type tone not bad for leads but for all out heaviness it doesn't do it for me
 
MetalZ said:
I have a recto mod where r1,r2,r3, are already 150 ohms and tried the c3 cap change. In the Grail topic it looks like these are the only items that differ from a Grail mod. Can this be true?

I'd like to know this, too. I have a Recto just dying to be a Grail.

Also, has anyone had any succes ordering MTS replacement parts from Randall, such as, faceplates, knobs, etc.?

Scott
 
TheAbomb12 said:
no. Not at all.

Hi, could you qualify this statement with an explanation?

Outside of the faceplate, I can't see how it's not considering a group of us matched it up part for part not too long ago.
 
well, its true that almost all of the modules feature VERY similar layouts and construction; The Recto and Grail are similar in the same way all Randall MTS mods are similar. But different enough for it to be difficult for the layperson to MOD a Recto to Grail specs.

Although, I suppose it is technically possible- No one so far has done it. The Best I've heard anyone do is the Recto Capacitor mods.
 
So what's sound like the closest to a Dual rectifier Ch3 Modern mode ?
The Grail or Rectifier with moded capacitor?

and what is the difference between Recto, Rectified, Treadplate modules?

I'm a newbee to MTS and I plan to try an RM4 preamp, I really need the Closest rectifier like sound.
 
Recto, Rectified, Treadplate are all the same module with different names. Most people feel that the distortion is flubby and inarticulate (Not to mention doesn't sound very much like a Dual Rec) . The Capacitor Mod helps fix this a little- but the base tone is still the same.

The Grail sounds the most like a Mesa Boogie Dual Rec from the 90's and is hands down, much superior to the Recto.


If you REALLY want some good tone- I would also Suggest getting the Egnater E-Rect Module; however they cost twice as much as Randall Modules.
 
TheAbomb12 said:
well, its true that almost all of the modules feature VERY similar layouts and construction; The Recto and Grail are similar in the same way all Randall MTS mods are similar. But different enough for it to be difficult for the layperson to MOD a Recto to Grail specs.

Although, I suppose it is technically possible- No one so far has done it. The Best I've heard anyone do is the Recto Capacitor mods.

Not similar, EXACT from what we discovered. Except C3, R1, R2, and R3? Every other component was EXACTLY the same!

Aside from pulling off the board and following traces to double check the order of components, could you be more specific as to what other differences there are? It sounds perhaps you know something we don't?
 
Unfortunately, I do not. I don't now the specifics as too how exactly the Recto is Different from the Grail; or what makes the Grail a better, more accurate reproduction of a Mesa Boogie. All I could tell you is, if all it took to change the recto mod to sound like the Grail was to switch out C3, R1, R2, and R3; not only would everyone do it, but they would be praising the Recto as one of the better modules POST soldering operation.
 
TheAbomb12 said:
All I could tell you is, if all it took to change the recto mod to sound like the Grail was to switch out C3, R1, R2, and R3; not only would everyone do it, but they would be praising the Recto as one of the better modules POST soldering operation.

Well that's kind of what we were thinking. Really we just need someone to take a modded recto and a grail side by side.

So far we're convinced it's a tweaked recto with a pretty faceplate.

Anyone have both to do the recto mod and compare?
 
TheAbomb12 said:
Unfortunately, I do not. I don't now the specifics as too how exactly the Recto is Different from the Grail; or what makes the Grail a better, more accurate reproduction of a Mesa Boogie. All I could tell you is, if all it took to change the recto mod to sound like the Grail was to switch out C3, R1, R2, and R3; not only would everyone do it, but they would be praising the Recto as one of the better modules POST soldering operation.

Thanks all for chiming in but until hear is a few guitarist that a/b them side by side give their comments we'll never know. It seems as though from what nuskooltone described that the circuits are identical. If that is true , given that you can mod a recto to grail specs, are the tubes the same?.... or is it a matter of "i spent more so it must sound different,...or be better" , syndrome?
Hey I'm just curious,...I'm trying to see if there is some extra voodo going on with the grail and if it is worth the extra $$
 
NuSkoolTone said:
TheAbomb12 said:
All I could tell you is, if all it took to change the recto mod to sound like the Grail was to switch out C3, R1, R2, and R3; not only would everyone do it, but they would be praising the Recto as one of the better modules POST soldering operation.

Well that's kind of what we were thinking. Really we just need someone to take a modded recto and a grail side by side.

So far we're convinced it's a tweaked recto with a pretty faceplate.

Anyone have both to do the recto mod and compare?

lol you beat me by a minute
M
 
Well that's kind of what we were thinking. Really we just need someone to take a modded recto and a grail side by side.

So far we're convinced it's a tweaked recto with a pretty faceplate.

Anyone have both to do the recto mod and compare?

Well, your welcomed to try. But I honestly think there is more to the tone difference than the circuit board layout. Obviously the Grail and Recto will have VERY similar layouts, because they are both *trying* to be Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifiers. I'm fairly sure that one of the components is different enough (although not visibly) to produce that tone change. Someone with more expertise than me can chime in to either confirm or disprove that, though, because I am by no means an expert. It would be great though for it to be possible to turn a recto into a grail- and I would very much like to see a modding project accomplish this.
 
Sometimes all it takes is one or two part value changes to go from crap to "GRAIL" not that this is the case but I don't have either mod to see but looks like a great start in the DIY process....
 
TheAbomb12 said:
Well, your welcomed to try. But I honestly think there is more to the tone difference than the circuit board layout. Obviously the Grail and Recto will have VERY similar layouts, because they are both *trying* to be Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifiers. I'm fairly sure that one of the components is different enough (although not visibly) to produce that tone change.

I plan on doing the mod. I'm so confident that they WILL be the same that I wouldn't buy the grail without a return policy. Here's the thing, ALL the components are marked as to what they are. These are mass produced items and not boutique, they're not scratching the tops of op amps and such to hide what they're doing. Unless there are components under the PCB that no one knows of (Doubt it) there's really not much more to tell. Also since these are mass produced they're looking for cost efficiency too. If a modded recto makes George happy why WOULDN'T they use it?

Also to quote another thread:

JKD said:
'course I should've also noted under v1 on Grail it says

RANDALL 6/4/05
MODU RECTO
REV 1.10

:D

Check out the whole thread here: http://mtsforum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?t=1890
 
Well cool. Sounds like you guys know exactly what you're doing. I hope it pans out well, because when I build up my MTS setup again I might be able to save some money on a good Rectifier tone.
 
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