JayDA
Well-known member
Pedal manufacturers have been "gooping" for YEARS.....it's not a new thing by any means. We're just beating a dead horse here, if you don't like it...don't buy it.
To goop or not to goop, that is the question!
- Thread starter speed2dirt
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MarcoR
Well-known member
Rob is not the first to use the black goop; modders have been doing this as long as there has been amps, mods and goop. There is no reason for most manufacturers to do this, they have their own protection in place with patent, licensing, lawyers, ect. Those that offer a niche service need to do what they can to protect their knowledge/skill if they want to continue getting revenue for that knowledge/skill. To quote the Incredibles; "When everyone's super, no one is".
Well, he may not be the first, but in 40 years of buying and selling gear, and being an eBay addict (watching, buying and selling) for over a decade, I've never come across it before. But, as I pointed out before, to me the old argument that the "big companies have lawyers" is not a valid point here. Big companies don't start out as big companies. Leo Fender and Don Randall didn't goop the very first Fender amps when they were just starting out nor did Jim Marshall nor any of the other amp companies when they were just starting out. It's just a weird business practice that makes it hard to service a product that you own (the modder does not own it - you do). What if Dyson, when he first started out, made his vacuum cleaner so you couldn't see what was inside and if you looked, you would have to do harm to the product to do so? The only way to troubleshoot and solve the most minor of problems would require sending the product back to the factory and no local electronic appliance repair businesses could do anything to help. If the company went out of business, you are screwed. And to me, that implies that there are possible headaches an issues that one could encounter down the road that detracts from the actual resale value of a gooped module--especially if Rob were to ever go out of business--because if there are problems with a module, good luck trying to solve those problems. As I've said before, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I respect that, but in my opinion, it's just an unnecessarily extreme business practice. There are plenty of big companies that did not start out big and went on to thrive without resorting to such measures. And, they thrived in part because their customers were perfectly happy with products that were not gooped. So, this is where it gets puzzling to hear people say "Heck yes! I WANT my module gooped!" Okay, for you guys that have a nice Marshall head, crack it open pour goop all over the circuit boards.
Jaded Faith
Well-known member
Allow me to present this to you from a different angle that invalidates the Marshall/Fender comparison: What I sell you is a SERVICE, what they sell you is a PRODUCT. It is far simpler to reverse my work and DIY than it is to clone an amp from scratch from a manufacturer. It's far cheaper to buy an amp from Marshall than it is for you to design it from the ground up and clone it. Not so for the services I offer.
The concepts in a Fender or Marshall preamp are common knowledge that anyone could look up. These modules are generic canvases that are only changed in a few ways to make them different from each other in stock form, with most using the exact same PCB. For example, the biggest differences between an SL+ and a Mr Scary are cosmetics. The circuit is nearly identical.
The know-how to bend the modular platform to best replicate a given amp is what I am selling you. I EXTENSIVELY hand-wire every module, it's not always as simple as a cap swap or resistor value change. Some mods are easier, some are very difficult and they are all priced accordingly. I also spend hours designing the switches and options, which is where a lot of the magic happens. For example, the new Silverado mod is so extensive it required me to design a 2nd tier PCB that is floating between the tubes in the middle of the module!
At the end of the day, remember I am selling you a service and not manufacturing a product. If I were making your modules and I was the only supplier, you could certainly have them goop free. I work on around 350 modules and about 100 amps per year and have seen significant growth for 3 years straight. I estimate in the next 2 years I'll be forced to expand my shop and hire a full time employee. Beyond that, you will be seeing original amp designs from me in the near future along with some other new endeavors. Hopefully that eases your concerns regarding the sustainability of my business.
On a final note, I'll mention Dumble gooped his work (modifications that were almost always Fender Amps in the beginning of their life) to hell and back and no one ever seemed to mind shelling out $30,000+ for his efforts.
The concepts in a Fender or Marshall preamp are common knowledge that anyone could look up. These modules are generic canvases that are only changed in a few ways to make them different from each other in stock form, with most using the exact same PCB. For example, the biggest differences between an SL+ and a Mr Scary are cosmetics. The circuit is nearly identical.
The know-how to bend the modular platform to best replicate a given amp is what I am selling you. I EXTENSIVELY hand-wire every module, it's not always as simple as a cap swap or resistor value change. Some mods are easier, some are very difficult and they are all priced accordingly. I also spend hours designing the switches and options, which is where a lot of the magic happens. For example, the new Silverado mod is so extensive it required me to design a 2nd tier PCB that is floating between the tubes in the middle of the module!
At the end of the day, remember I am selling you a service and not manufacturing a product. If I were making your modules and I was the only supplier, you could certainly have them goop free. I work on around 350 modules and about 100 amps per year and have seen significant growth for 3 years straight. I estimate in the next 2 years I'll be forced to expand my shop and hire a full time employee. Beyond that, you will be seeing original amp designs from me in the near future along with some other new endeavors. Hopefully that eases your concerns regarding the sustainability of my business.
On a final note, I'll mention Dumble gooped his work (modifications that were almost always Fender Amps in the beginning of their life) to hell and back and no one ever seemed to mind shelling out $30,000+ for his efforts.
JayDA
Well-known member
Can you guys let Rob get back to work building my next batch of mods now? Thanks......
MarcoR
Well-known member
For $110,000 you can get this well gooped monstrosity.
http://www.gruhn.com/features/PA2520/PA2520.htm
http://www.gruhn.com/features/PA2520/PA2520.htm
iekobrid
Well-known member
Caine said:
Now I'm not saying he should goop modules... but I understand.
(Apologies to Chris Rock. Good thing comedians can't goop jokes!)
ricky
Well-known member
JayDA said:
I agree. I don't want Rob all stressed out while working on my new Wrecked mod (which should be here in about two weeks now, but who is counting?)
ricky
Well-known member
Once he is done with my mods we can really get this argument thing on goop going. I will let you know when the Wrecked gets in and we can go from there. but until then, let's be quiet.
Oyster
Well-known member
If it sounds good and Rob can fix the mod if it acts up I don't give a ****!
VitaminG
Well-known member
what?! Others have also gooped pedals & amplifiers? What's the world coming to?
if the goop is such a problem for people, maybe Rob could develop a closed case to go over the modules with a "no user serviceable parts inside" sticker on top and "warranty void if removed" stickers along the seems of the case. That way he won't be left carrying the can when some bonehead decides to further mod his designs and bricks the module in the process before selling it to some sucker on ebay as "working when it left here".
Remember, every unpaid warranty repair that Rob performs takes him away from designing & building new mods, and may ultimately effect his bottom line, forcing him to pass those costs on to people buying new mods.
if the goop is such a problem for people, maybe Rob could develop a closed case to go over the modules with a "no user serviceable parts inside" sticker on top and "warranty void if removed" stickers along the seems of the case. That way he won't be left carrying the can when some bonehead decides to further mod his designs and bricks the module in the process before selling it to some sucker on ebay as "working when it left here".
Remember, every unpaid warranty repair that Rob performs takes him away from designing & building new mods, and may ultimately effect his bottom line, forcing him to pass those costs on to people buying new mods.
Jaded Faith
Well-known member
VitaminG said:
This basically sums it up as well as I could have said it! I guess I kind of think of the goop as my "warranty voiding" device, as you would still need to get to the tubes and a case would just drive up costs.
On a happy note I not only serviced, but completely updated a Quick Mod into a GT version yesterday for JayDA. It was gooped. It's updated and kills now. No worries! Time to enjoy a weekend off now....
Happy Summer!
Rob
JayDA
Well-known member
Jaded Faith said:On a happy note I not only serviced, but completely updated a Quick Mod into a GT version yesterday for JayDA. It was gooped. It's updated and kills now. No worries! Time to enjoy a weekend off now....
Happy Summer!
Rob
Indeed you did, and it sounds awesome. I still like the OD2 setting in gear #1 the most for some reason, cuts like a knife.
Oyster
Well-known member
The Quickmod GT is great when I drop tune! You are a true Rock an Rolla Rob!!!!!!
:twisted:
:twisted:
bot
Member
Sony used to use a brown glue on its boards to hold components in and for mods.
After a few years the brown glue got hard and conductive. I've spent many hours scrapeing off the brown conductive glue. One time after I was done, I must have messed up a trace on the board because the unit was stuck in Japanese. I had to send it back to Sony to get it them to make it English again.
Most automotive modules are potted, but this is mainly for protection from the elements. I have seen circuit boards covered with shellac for this reason as well.
After a few years the brown glue got hard and conductive. I've spent many hours scrapeing off the brown conductive glue. One time after I was done, I must have messed up a trace on the board because the unit was stuck in Japanese. I had to send it back to Sony to get it them to make it English again.
Most automotive modules are potted, but this is mainly for protection from the elements. I have seen circuit boards covered with shellac for this reason as well.
