We can do better ***Rant***

you think modded modules should cost 170? US? This is about the cost of a DIY mod if it;s a known mod or upgrade..

I think 100 for the donor, plus the price of the mod, minus some, 50-75? for age and use, and that is a god deal... This is still a free market, I believe, and things will sell for what someone will pay. I for one would never take such a hit on a modded module if it were one I was not keeping. an equal trade, yes, half price? no way. Sorry to disagree but a person can always buy from the original source.

I see salvos for 325-375 and JF for as low as 225....thems good deals

That said, I will buy your mods all day at 170

withmittens said:

things will sell for what someone will pay

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/thread

drewiv said:

/thread

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Agreed. I even like the module I started this thread about and am no longer disgruntled. 8)

MarcoR said:

drewiv said:

/thread

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Agreed. I even like the module I started this thread about and am no longer disgruntled. 8)

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lol. Per our "I don't think people on the internet get my sense of humor" conversation.

The price to get into MTS is artificially low due to Randall's poor execution in build and component choice. That's why so many fixes can be done by simply swapping transistors or resistors.

The un modified mods were selling for more than $170. And the amount of work, research and time combined with talent put into these mods is worth a bit more. Sure some prices can seem high, but most are worth the asking price IMO.

Not to be contrary, just my thoughts.

ah, ok, this was a joke..........

withmittens said:

ah, ok, this was a joke..........

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I don't think it started out to be, but ended up being... no need for

tschrama said:

2nd handprices: 50% new value. Shipping for the buyer.

E.g.
2nd hand XTC module: 110$. couple of hours for modding + 50$ max

Modded modules should not costs more than 170$. I am still amazed by the ridiculus pricing of modded modules. I sure am never gonna buy one.

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Yeah because guitar amp companies don't factor in the R&D cost to their amps, that would just be unreasonable, that's why new Meas's are the same cost as the parts + $50...

...oh wait, no there not

webrthomson said:

tschrama said:

2nd handprices: 50% new value. Shipping for the buyer.

E.g.
2nd hand XTC module: 110$. couple of hours for modding + 50$ max

Modded modules should not costs more than 170$. I am still amazed by the ridiculus pricing of modded modules. I sure am never gonna buy one.

Click to expand...

Yeah because guitar amp companies don't factor in the R&D cost to their amps, that would just be unreasonable, that's why new Meas's are the same cost as the parts + $50...

...oh wait, no there not

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True, maybe there is more , a little more, to it than just assembly. Like the investing in tooling, workplace, etc..But it is not like modders have to reinvent the wheel .... most mods are plainly based on excisting preamps...(leaving the real inverse-engenering research to info sharing members of other amp forums...) Once you have build a few amps, there is little more to invent... you kinda learn on the job..but allright:

2 hours testing, 50$, spread over 5-25 sales (?): 2-10$ added per mod for 'research'.

Warning offtopic rant:
I think the real reason for the high prices of modded modules, is that these people need high prices to make a living of it; taking advantage of naive, technical uneducated, buyers. This forums seems to support situation, as no sharing of technical information is allowed to reverse engenir mods (guts shots, schematics,mod suggestions, etc). Once that happens, everybody buys a soldering iron and makes their own mod. Happend with pedals, happend with Soldano amps, happend to Neve consoles, will happen to MTS too.

Offcourse the sound quality, built quality and looks help too. Not trying to diss the modders, just irritated by this ridiculus new/2nd-hand prices, and lack of technical interest here....

ya know I dunno if I should throw in this conversation or not lmao but....

This isn't that complicated really.

A modded module when you're starting from scratch is $300+ to $425 US. If you send in your "core", it's about $200 per Mod. All this research BS aside... It takes several hrs. to solder something like this together. I personally wouldn't do it for much less. I bashed on Rob for his STEP Pedal once because I thought it was a bit pricey, but for the most part the rest makes perfect sense to me.

What gets me though, is a guy on ebay that wants the same price as New. That's just not gonna happen. Let's say I buy a Module from Rob. Rob is going to warranty his **** to me (Right Rob?). To me that's worth about $100. That guy on ebay is going to be gone next week. If I buy a module from a guy on ebay (or anywhere) that breaks, Rob's going to charge me $100 to fix it. (I'd probably actually fix it myself, but that's besides the point) So that put's the max price for a used (...and I don't care if you only used it for 45 seconds. The point is it has NO warranty) at about $325 MAX. I'd personally feel better about buying most of them more in the $200 range. These people that list their Modules for $375 and up, will never sell me a Module. Unless I wake up one day and just don't give a flying bat's fart about wasting money (That happens sometimes but it doesn't make the things I waste money on worth more)

The fact is... Anthony pretty much sets the price on this stuff. Compared to Anthony Rob is @ a discount. So The price is set. If the price were higher, most of us wouldn't be here. I know I wouldn't. ...and MTS would die tomorrow.

So In short.... If you buy a $400 Module, and take it home and play it, it's now worth $300. If you think it's worth more, you're out of your mind. If you buy a used Module on ebay, you're taking a chance it might break and you might have to pay to have it fixed. It's not that complicated

...and if you bought a Module on ebay for $400, I have a whole buncha **** in this back room I'd like you to take a look at

Part of the genius of Bruce?s creation is that it?s so addictive. Guitarists are always obsessively searching for tone and this system perpetuates that behavior.

What I think has happened on this forum is we?ve roughly sketched a means to try new modules without committing all our funds. People will pay $400 for a module if they know they can turn it over in a couple weeks and get their money back if they don?t like it.

The system almost works and when it does work right, you get to try a new module for the cost of shipping.

The problem is people screw the market by trying to get all their money back when they re-sell for more than they paid or sell for too cheap and compromise the worth of the module.

Probably the biggest issue is as suphuckers pointed out, if you?re not buying directly from the modder, you?re not getting their guarantee on the mod. I would also agree that guarantee is worth about $100 bucks (that should cover the modders time, parts and shipping if it fails). So if you pay $400 new, it should only be $300 if you turn around and re-sell it the following week without the guarantee. Keep it for 6 months then less.

It would be nice if we all agreed to a standardized protocol for dealing in the used module market that at least on this forum we could adhere to. Make it a sticky post and point people to that post when they fail to follow the recommended practice. If we did that, the prices would come down and we?d all get to try more modules?and isn?t that what we all really want anyway?

MarcoR said:

Part of the genius of Bruce?s creation is that it?s so addictive. Guitarists are always obsessively searching for tone and this system perpetuates that behavior.

What I think has happened on this forum is we?ve roughly sketched a means to try new modules without committing all our funds. People will pay $400 for a module if they know they can turn it over in a couple weeks and get their money back if they don?t like it.

The system almost works and when it does work right, you get to try a new module for the cost of shipping.

The problem is people screw the market by trying to get all their money back when they re-sell for more than they paid or sell for too cheap and compromise the worth of the module.

Probably the biggest issue is as suphuckers pointed out, if you?re not buying directly from the modder, you?re not getting their guarantee on the mod. I would also agree that guarantee is worth about $100 bucks (that should cover the modders time, parts and shipping if it fails). So if you pay $400 new, it should only be $300 if you turn around and re-sell it the following week without the guarantee. Keep it for 6 months then less.

It would be nice if we all agreed to a standardized protocol for dealing in the used module market that at least on this forum we could adhere to. Make it a sticky post and point people to that post when they fail to follow the recommended practice. If we did that, the prices would come down and we?d all get to try more modules?and isn?t that what we all really want anyway?

Click to expand...

While this might be very nice; I'm guessing it would slow the purchases of NEW modules if you knew you were only going to get $XXX once it hit your doorstep. Which could possibly put the "modders" out of business. In turn, these two issues would create less of a supply in the USED modules market. Which, in turn, could actually drive UP the cost of used modules. No? :?

drewiv said:

MarcoR said:

Part of the genius of Bruce?s creation is that it?s so addictive. Guitarists are always obsessively searching for tone and this system perpetuates that behavior.

What I think has happened on this forum is we?ve roughly sketched a means to try new modules without committing all our funds. People will pay $400 for a module if they know they can turn it over in a couple weeks and get their money back if they don?t like it.

The system almost works and when it does work right, you get to try a new module for the cost of shipping.

The problem is people screw the market by trying to get all their money back when they re-sell for more than they paid or sell for too cheap and compromise the worth of the module.

Probably the biggest issue is as suphuckers pointed out, if you?re not buying directly from the modder, you?re not getting their guarantee on the mod. I would also agree that guarantee is worth about $100 bucks (that should cover the modders time, parts and shipping if it fails). So if you pay $400 new, it should only be $300 if you turn around and re-sell it the following week without the guarantee. Keep it for 6 months then less.

It would be nice if we all agreed to a standardized protocol for dealing in the used module market that at least on this forum we could adhere to. Make it a sticky post and point people to that post when they fail to follow the recommended practice. If we did that, the prices would come down and we?d all get to try more modules?and isn?t that what we all really want anyway?

Click to expand...

While this might be very nice; I'm guessing it would slow the purchases of NEW modules if you knew you were only going to get $XXX once it hit your doorstep. Which could possibly put the "modders" out of business. In turn, these two issues would create less of a supply in the USED modules market. Which, in turn, could actually drive UP the cost of used modules. No? :?

Click to expand...

Possible, but we haven?t written the final draft yet. We?d have to review all the scenarios to really make it work to everyone?s benefit. Some modders may honor their guarantees to the new owner and the deduction should not apply. Not like this is ever going to happen but it's an interesting discussion.

MarcoR said:

drewiv said:

MarcoR said:

Part of the genius of Bruce?s creation is that it?s so addictive. Guitarists are always obsessively searching for tone and this system perpetuates that behavior.

What I think has happened on this forum is we?ve roughly sketched a means to try new modules without committing all our funds. People will pay $400 for a module if they know they can turn it over in a couple weeks and get their money back if they don?t like it.

The system almost works and when it does work right, you get to try a new module for the cost of shipping.

The problem is people screw the market by trying to get all their money back when they re-sell for more than they paid or sell for too cheap and compromise the worth of the module.

Probably the biggest issue is as suphuckers pointed out, if you?re not buying directly from the modder, you?re not getting their guarantee on the mod. I would also agree that guarantee is worth about $100 bucks (that should cover the modders time, parts and shipping if it fails). So if you pay $400 new, it should only be $300 if you turn around and re-sell it the following week without the guarantee. Keep it for 6 months then less.

It would be nice if we all agreed to a standardized protocol for dealing in the used module market that at least on this forum we could adhere to. Make it a sticky post and point people to that post when they fail to follow the recommended practice. If we did that, the prices would come down and we?d all get to try more modules?and isn?t that what we all really want anyway?

Click to expand...

While this might be very nice; I'm guessing it would slow the purchases of NEW modules if you knew you were only going to get $XXX once it hit your doorstep. Which could possibly put the "modders" out of business. In turn, these two issues would create less of a supply in the USED modules market. Which, in turn, could actually drive UP the cost of used modules. No? :?

Click to expand...

Possible, but we haven?t written the final draft yet. We?d have to review all the scenarios to really make it work to everyone?s benefit. Some modders may honor their guarantees to the new owner and the deduction should not apply. Not like this is ever going to happen but it's an interesting discussion.

Click to expand...

I'm not really in the used module market either way. When I cleared out my single channel modules I can guarantee you I sold it off at about 75% (generous estimate to make myself feel a bit better) of what was "invested" in it. There is a very small market for dual channel mods and I have purchased all but one new. I'm not a flipper, I'm a hoarder. I've only sold a few dual channel modules to fund an amp purchase.

I can understand wanting some type of order, but I believe the free market system provides that. If you think it costs too much - don't buy it. I haven't bought many things based on that, including a Ferrari 360 Modena.

Yeah, lets try not to Communize the classifieds please, lol. Simply put, as in real life/the real economy, it will not work in the end and could cause all kinds of 'unintended consequences'. As was stated earlier, it's really simple, and unavoidable so long as there are other outlets (eBay, TGP, etc.) - folks won't pay a cent more for a module than they are willing to pay, and sellers won't sell a module for a penny lower than they are willing to sell it for... Free market. Supply and demand dominate - just look at how cheap RM100's can be had at (supply far outsrips demand, hence very low prices). So, just go with the flow - it's all good...

drewiv said:

I'm not really in the used module market either way. When I cleared out my single channel modules I can guarantee you I sold it off at about 75% (generous estimate to make myself feel a bit better) of what was "invested" in it. There is a very small market for dual channel mods and I have purchased all but one new. I'm not a flipper, I'm a hoarder. I've only sold a few dual channel modules to fund an amp purchase.

I can understand wanting some type of order, but I believe the free market system provides that. If you think it costs too much - don't buy it. I haven't bought many things based on that, including a Ferrari 360 Modena.

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I have all the modules I need for now and don?t plan on anything soon. Like you, the only flipping I did was when I switched to all dual modules with the exception of the Dual Camerock I got from you that got flipped the next day. I ate the shipping and everyone was happy.

The only reason this conversation is still going on is that others here feel the market is a little ridiculous. The fact is we?re the ones driving the market and we can do whatever we want.

I guess my question is what does it matter? If we are talking about flippers, what does it matter if they are flipping modules at $450 or $150 a piece? If you're getting (say) 90% of the "value" back, what does it matter the original entry fee? The only person this manifesto would harm is people who bought in at the $450 level and the manifesto decreases this new $150 price point.

Pay what you want to pay for modules, it shouldn't be done with the expectation you can get your money back or at least continue to flip with no cash...sometimes you are lucky...most often 'fair' market price dictates that a new car is worth less after you drive it off the lot.

The exception is usually that new model (that probably sounds 90% like every other module in the genre ;-) ) that no-one else has yet!

It's fun isn't it, part of the beauty of MTS

JKD said:

The exception is usually that new model (that probably sounds 90% like every other module in the genre ;-) ) that no-one else has yet!

It's fun isn't it, part of the beauty of MTS

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Exactly. I especially like it when people play the ?It?s rare and won?t be available much longer? card; it?s not going to be that different from the 50 other modules you tried, didn?t like and sold.

Corium_AZ said:

Yeah, lets try not to Communize the classifieds please, lol.

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+1 for less Communism