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Synergy VS Egnater : cathode switch
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Jaded Faith
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gtr31 wrote:
Thats super helpful ,so it is controlling voltage in the preamp
is the 3rd setting (Slo/Rect/5150) basically accounting for the cold clipping stage ?
This explains a lot as the SLO at the moment would be the only mod using that 3rd setting which creates a more aggressive clipping I am guessing


All the switch is doing is changing the cathode resistor and cathode bypass cap values for the initial stage in the amplifier. Preamp tubes are traditionally cathode biased in common gain stages most often seen in guitar amps. This is similar to cathode biasing a power tube. From a players point of view, you would most likely perceive it like a high frequency shelving boost if you were able to actively change settings while playing.

The cold clipper stages in amps like the JCM800, SLO, 5150 and Rectifiers happen downstream and this switch would have no impact on that at all.
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gtr31
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jaded Faith wrote:
gtr31 wrote:
Thats super helpful ,so it is controlling voltage in the preamp
is the 3rd setting (Slo/Rect/5150) basically accounting for the cold clipping stage ?
This explains a lot as the SLO at the moment would be the only mod using that 3rd setting which creates a more aggressive clipping I am guessing


All the switch is doing is changing the cathode resistor and cathode bypass cap values for the initial stage in the amplifier. Preamp tubes are traditionally cathode biased in common gain stages most often seen in guitar amps. This is similar to cathode biasing a power tube. From a players point of view, you would most likely perceive it like a high frequency shelving boost if you were able to actively change settings while playing.

The cold clipper stages in amps like the JCM800, SLO, 5150 and Rectifiers happen downstream and this switch would have no impact on that at all.


so would Synergy actually capture the SLO cold clip in the later stage in the module or do you think it would be left out
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Jaded Faith
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sure. It was in all the stock Recto modules Randall ever made and the XTC stock module as well. It's really the initial stage or the quantity of stages (see my other post) that got the raw deal in regard to authenticity.
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warmachine67
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting reply, thanks for explaining that Rob.

Are the folks from Synergy eventually going to make a presence on this board? I'm sure they are busy getting the new product out there, but seems most answers have come from the board and not them.
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Jaded Faith
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're quite welcome. I don't visit here often and a customer text message alerted me to this post. You can always reach out to me at the shop during business hours.

As far as the Synergy team, I'm often in touch with the guys on the team and the owner. I'm happy to help on their behalf as needed. We are all busy with day-to-day operations at our respective businesses, but I'm happy to answer things when I can.
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studio289
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jaded Faith wrote:
I'll try to explain this in a way that should clear up the confusion....


Great info, Rob! Thank you for taking the time to explain this.
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max44
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks a lot for the explanation Rob,
Just to be sure, you say : " The other two variations provided via the Synergy modules and hardware ... "
Does it mean that this 3 way switch works only in Synergy hardware ?
Does it work in Randall and Egnater hardware also ?
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Jaded Faith
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The circuit being switched is inside the Synergy amps and rack units, not on the modules. There are switches on the modules and that setting tells the Synergy amp which setting to use. This allows for different settings to be activated at the module level, but only when used in a Synergy amp. When they are used in a Randall or Egnater amp the Fender (1K5/22uF) setting is used regardless of the switch setting, as that's the only option available inside of those amps.
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MarcoR
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jaded Faith wrote:
The circuit being switched is inside the Synergy amps and rack units, not on the modules. There are switches on the modules and that setting tells the Synergy amp which setting to use. This allows for different settings to be activated at the module level, but only when used in a Synergy amp. When they are used in a Randall or Egnater amp the Fender (1K5/22uF) setting is used regardless of the switch setting, as that's the only option available inside of those amps.


Thanks, Rob! That should be stickied because it will be asked a million times.
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max44
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok thanks, that would have been too easy I guess ...
And if I get it right : " the initial gain stage in all MTS is always in the amp/preamp itself ... " This initial stage is driven by the 12AX7 tube on Egnater M4 and Randall RM4 ? So by changing tube type and/or brand it should affect the initial gain ?
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MarcoR
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

max44 wrote:
This initial stage is driven by the 12AX7 tube on Egnater M4 and Randall RM4 ? So by changing tube type and/or brand it should affect the initial gain ?

Put your best tube there, every module will benefit!
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Jaded Faith
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

max44 wrote:
Ok thanks, that would have been too easy I guess ...
And if I get it right : " the initial gain stage in all MTS is always in the amp/preamp itself ... " This initial stage is driven by the 12AX7 tube on Egnater M4 and Randall RM4 ? So by changing tube type and/or brand it should affect the initial gain ?

Correct and Marco gave good advice regarding using a quality tube there. It benefits every module used in the unit because that's the first stop for your signal after the input jack. From that tube it's routed to the modules.
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max44
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, will do !
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withmittens
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so, it happens on the preamp end before the P1 of the amp? hence why it's on Syn1 & Syn2, and why Rob mentions a modded board previous to Synergy
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Hernando04
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So why are there 2 preamp tubes on the back of the M4 and only 1 on Syn 2.
I'm not talking about the old M4s with the loops. The later M4s and the reissues have 2 preamp tubes.
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