Synergy modules in Randall enclosures

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Mattallica

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I've been having a good time with the BE module. I'm running it in a RM100M head. I play mostly medium gain metal/rock riff stuff (Tool, AiC etc). I've usually got the gain on the module around 3/4. It's heavy but still very dynamic, which i'm now used to now.

I've been very keen to get the VH4, thinking i would be getting more of the same chuggy dynamic goodness but with even more gain and saturation. Particularly going off the demos on YT.

I finally got a hold of one today and i have to say, first impressions are not good.

Setting both modules like for like, the VH4 is way more compressed and has a woofiness i can't dial out.

It also doesn't appear to have that much more gain. Once i get to 6-7 it seems to only add an unpleasant clipping sound.

I guess my point is, how much effect is the RM100 having on the sound? i'm aware of the extra tube stage at V1 before the modules, i have 5751 in there. Could that be causing the unpleasant clipping? it appears to be helping the BE.

What about the rest of the amp?

The YT demos have the VH4 in a syn 1 or 2 which i'm assuming doesn't have a V1 before the module. So that could be as to why they sound good but mine doesn't.

Is anyone else finding this with the Randall units? or is it all in my head?
 
All modular amps ever made have the initial gain stage in the amp/rack unit itself. The stock Randall and Egnater amps will have a cathode resistor of 1.5K and a bypass of 22uF (traditional Fender). The default for the VH4 if used in Synergy gear is the traditional Marshall value of 2.7K and 0.68uF. This will have less bass and rolls off around 300Hz. I do offer a mod for the original amps to give you the three Synergy settings on a toggle switch if you are interested.
 
So I'm interested in learning more about the tonal difference to a module when you switch between the 3 cathode bias resistor / bypass cap values.

If you're running say a Synergy Friedman or Diezel (mid - high gainer) module in old Egnater or Randall hardware are you really missing something tone wise? Or can you get yourself right back in the ballpark with some slight adjustments of the EQ knobs?

Synergy decribes it as "this will affect the feel and tightness".
 
Jaded Faith said:
All modular amps ever made have the initial gain stage in the amp/rack unit itself. The stock Randall and Egnater amps will have a cathode resistor of 1.5K and a bypass of 22uF (traditional Fender). The default for the VH4 if used in Synergy gear is the traditional Marshall value of 2.7K and 0.68uF. This will have less bass and rolls off around 300Hz. I do offer a mod for the original amps to give you the three Synergy settings on a toggle switch if you are interested.

that's a cool thing, Rob. how much is this mod?
 
Thanks Rob!, i understand this whole cathode switching thing now.

So as TubeMan5150 says, this will effect the low end woofiness i think i'm hearing, but will it allieviate the compression at all? can the same effect be achieved with an EQ pedal in the front?

The toggle switch would be a 3PDT switch with the three Synergy settings across the lugs and jumpered back to the PCB board, right?
 
withmittens said:
Jaded Faith said:
All modular amps ever made have the initial gain stage in the amp/rack unit itself. The stock Randall and Egnater amps will have a cathode resistor of 1.5K and a bypass of 22uF (traditional Fender). The default for the VH4 if used in Synergy gear is the traditional Marshall value of 2.7K and 0.68uF. This will have less bass and rolls off around 300Hz. I do offer a mod for the original amps to give you the three Synergy settings on a toggle switch if you are interested.

that's a cool thing, Rob. how much is this mod?

It's $99 installed.
 
TubeMan5150 said:
So I'm interested in learning more about the tonal difference to a module when you switch between the 3 cathode bias resistor / bypass cap values.

If you're running say a Synergy Friedman or Diezel (mid - high gainer) module in old Egnater or Randall hardware are you really missing something tone wise? Or can you get yourself right back in the ballpark with some slight adjustments of the EQ knobs?

Synergy decribes it as "this will affect the feel and tightness".

The description from Synergy is accurate. The cathode resistor is part of what determines the bias for a preamp tube's bias point. The bypass caps can provide a frequency shelving signal boost.

The Synergy modules like a Friedman or Diezel would be using a tighter setting than the stock Randall and Egnater MTS amps had. All modders and stock modules used to account for this via circuit tweaks. The Tight switches often found on modules were a variable compensation for this using a different circuit tweak. That's part of the reason why my take on a mod might be different than someone else mod. Part of it is an artistic decision that has to be made to work within the variables we do not have control over modifying just a module.
 
Mattallica said:
It can be done with a 4PDT on-on-on, doesn't look like a 3PDT will suffice

I do it with a DPTT with ON-OFF-ON. I'm sure there's a million other ways but that is really simple for me. I actually just installed one a few minutes ago.
 
Switch installation has been successful! and it's made all the difference with the Synergy VH4. The bottom end is now under control using the "Marshall" setting (.68uF/2.7k)

I guess the next step is to A/B the switch with an EQ.

Rob, can the switch "pop" noise be remedied in any way?
 
The popping noise should go away when you leave 0.68uF where the 22uf capacitor previously was and add other values in parallel with the switch.
 
Sorry, I don't quite follow. I've wired it such that I'm breaking then making the connection between settings, I'm not adding parts to the original.

Also, I need to talk to you about a dual channel mod..
 
If you switch between two capacitors you will hear a "pop", when the signal is interrupted. Just send me an email to: [email protected] and we can discuss the dual channel mod and the wiring of the switch.
Cheers, Paul
 
One thing of note is that Synergy seems to be designed to work with a more sterile power amp as compared to the MTS series. I can only extrapolate that based on the differences of the Syn5050.
 
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