Dokken Tooth and Nail Sound - Grail or Mr. Scary?

Synergy/MTS Forum

Help Support Synergy/MTS Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Julia said:
You could try the Danelectro Cool Cat Transparent Overdrive for $39. Yes, it's a great bargain. It can be bright and glassy if you want it, or not, and you have a bass control. This one is true bypass.

I'd try this before the TS808 RI. The TS808 is going to be closer to the Cusack than the TS-9, and it's got a better buffer in it.
.

There we go, the Cool Cat has what I'm looking for: transparent and true bypass. And dang, for that little money is definitely worth checking out. Thanks! :D

For my own education, what's a buffer doing in analog pedals? I thought buffers where for digital devices. :shock:
 
Your Randall FX loop has a buffer.... it's a tube buffer. Buffers have been around for decades. They're not digital. And you do need one in your signal chain, especially if it is long. Boss buffers are quite good. Ibanez buffers are quite good. My signal chain has an Ibanez TS808 that I use as the buffer and sometimes as the boost.
 
Julia said:
Your Randall FX loop has a buffer.... it's a tube buffer. Buffers have been around for decades. They're not digital. And you do need one in your signal chain, especially if it is long. Boss buffers are quite good. Ibanez buffers are quite good. My signal chain has an Ibanez TS808 that I use as the buffer and sometimes as the boost.

Thanks Julia, pardon my cluelessness but this buffer stuff seems important and I really don't understand it. Aren't analog devices capable of processing whatever is thrown at them in real-time? What role does the buffer play?
 
From wikipedia:

Typically a current buffer amplifier is used to transfer a current from a first circuit, having a low output impedance level, to a second circuit with a high input impedance level. The interposed buffer amplifier prevents the second circuit from loading the first circuit unacceptably and interfering with its desired operation. In the ideal current buffer in the diagram, the input resistance is zero, the output resistance infinite (impedance of an ideal current source is infinite). Again, other properties of the ideal buffer are: perfect linearity, regardless of signal amplitudes; and instant output response, regardless of the speed of the input signal.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From Pete Cornish:

The true-bypass function can create dreadful problems with a system that uses many pedals. Take for instance a 20' guitar cable linked to 10 pedals (Julia has 8), each linked by a short cable and then onto the amp by a 25' cable. If all pedals have true bypass and are off then the total cable length hanging on the guitar output will be over 50'. This will cause a huge loss of tone and signal level particularly if the guitar uses low output singles or medium output humbuckers and high impedence. The amp volume is then turned up, and the treble control increased to compensate for the losses.

The inherent background noise now increases by the amount of gain and treble increase, and is usually, in my experience, too bad for serious work. If one of the pedals is now switched on, then its high input impedance and usually low output impedance will buffer all the output cables from the guitar, and the signal level will rise due to the removal of some of the load on the pickups.

Consider the change to approx 22 ft of cable. But the treble will rise and the tone and volume will not be as before. If that pedal was say a chorus or delay, devices typically set to unity gain, then your overall signal level and tone will vary each time an effect is added. This is not a very good idea.

My system, which I devised in the early 70s, is to feed the guitar into a fixed high impedance load that is identical to the amp input, then distrubute the signal to the vaiour effects by low-impedance buffered feeds. This gives a constant signal level and tonal characteristics which do not change at all when effects are added.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From me:

Now the Cornish system can be very expensive to implement, however it does have its merits. Running buffers at the beginning of the chain will adversely affect stuff like fuzz faces, germanium transistor fuzzes, and germanium transistor rangemaster circuits, which is exactly what I've got at the beginning of the chain. Then comes the Dano Cool Cat TOD. Everything up through here is true bypass, including my Peterson Strobe tuner.

This I run into an Ibanez Tubescreamer, which is my buffer that tightens up the signal before going onto anything else beyond it. This goes into a true bypass Little Big Muff Pi, into a true-bypass Micro Q-tron, then into an always on MXR M-108 EQ (this has no bypass. It is always on, even if you bypass the graphic part of the circuit), then into the amp.

I find this gives the benefits of running my germanium fuzzes, a buffer to tighten the signal, and then onto some other effects that I use before the amp. I have no horrid signal degradation with my single coils. They are still as bright and glassy as ever.

I don't need the bright switches turned on. I don't need a noise gate, even when I dime the gain on the Grail, which I've only done once just to see what it would do. Same chain.

So the effect of a buffer in the chain is to effectively shorten the cable run to that of between the buffer and the amp, rather than have it be the entire run. Buffers are there for a reason.

And if you look at these photos.....

1) I don't think Dave Navarro (RHCP) is particularly worried about this board sucking his tone:

DaveNavarofromRHCP.jpg


Nor is Satch:

JoeSatrianisDirtBoard.jpg


And Les Paul wasn't too concerned either:

LesPaulsPedalboard.jpg


And now for the ridiculous from John Frusciante:

JohnFrusciantesboards.jpg
 
Wow Julia, what can I say except THANKS! That's one heck of a good post. I see what's going on with buffering.

For my case, I think I'll be fine since I run all my effects off a G-Major 2 via the serial loop in my Lynch combo. I'm thinking of running the overdrive in traditional sense i.e., in front of the amp.

Dang how about that Frusciante set up, that is just way too crazy! I guess he manages to pull it off. I had at most 4 pedals in older setups and that can be challenging after a few beers. Thanks again for great post.

:D
 
Wow Julia, what can I say except THANKS! That's one heck of a good post. I see what's going on with buffering.

For my case, I think I'll be fine since I run all my effects off a G-Major 2 via the serial loop in my Lynch combo. I'm thinking of running the overdrive in traditional sense i.e., in front of the amp.

Dang how about that Frusciante set up, that is just way too crazy! I guess he manages to pull it off. I had at most 4 pedals in older setups and that can be challenging after a few beers. Thanks again for great post.

:D
 
Julia said:
You could try the Danelectro Cool Cat Transparent Overdrive for $39.

Just got it and been testing it in front of a Super-V. It's indeed a real good deal for the price. It acts as second channel providing an extra very controllable boost of pretty much the original tone. Thanks for the recommendation! :D
 
George is quoted at saying he never used the randall SS amps for recording... shame as they are great amps. I had a Randall RG 100 for quite some time. The crunch channel has an awsome TS808 voiced drive.

Brahma hands down.
 
80's metal said:
After looking at john frusciante's setup all I can say is, it's great to have roadies!! lol

It's a new concept, blindly stomp in some general area and your bound to hit something that makes sense. I also heard that for the next tour he's going for the whole the stage! :lol:
 
Top