Dumb Questions...(not exactly for Pete)

Excuse me for being so hypothetical, but it's how I learn.

I love my Randall RM 100B2. It's the best sounding (most authentic & versatile) amp I've ever owned.
The quality... I would put in league with Mesa or Soldano. (sound wise)
However, these Gigmods and Voodoo amp mods are making me think the amp wasn't designed "balls to the wall" like most of us would probably do, given the chance.
But why not?
My guess is, safety limits?
Longevity of the product life? (AX7s burning out frequently)
Copyright infringement?
And lastly, designer' poor judgment/ear? :lol:

The Gigmodded (?) Deluxe module I just snagged off of Ebay sounds much fuller and deeper than the Blackface I just sent to Pete for modding.
Why would there be so much room for improvement?
How can Voodoo amps "hop up" your power section without going over certain tolerances in the amp's circuit design?

You can bore out any engine, use racing fuel, etc....
But the engine won't last as long as it was designed for.

So, how many hours are lost?
How far away from design specs are we taking it? Pushed to the limit?
Do these amps go to eleven?

Are these truly dumb questions?

Gigmods, Salvation, JF, DF, Egnater (the Mod series) and others here do what we call "boutique" stuff.

No, the RM series amp was designed with parts that would be the most consistent, and best for the lowest cost. Could the modules have been "better" or more "balls to the wall"? Yes. But if you want that be prepared to pay $2000 for the 50W version and $2500 for teh 100W version and $400 per module.

The modules give a very close approximation of the given amps represented. The modders tweak or redesign the given modules to get even closer, but you've still got to go through the Randall power amp. A Pete modded XTC is still going to play through a Randall power amp, not a Bogner Ecstasy. Then a Bogner Ecstasy costs about $5000.

Trust me we're the only ones who really care about how close the tone is. IME the average person is listening to the song, how well the song is written, how many hooks are in the song, and how well the song is played.

The best clean tone I've gotten has been on my Fender HR Deville 212 with my G&L Legacy. I have not heard better. I brought that humble amp over to a friends house to jam with his band on Friday. I brought my POD for the distortion stuff. The POD sounded like ***... horrible. So I just removed the POD from the loop and played clean all night. We were playing blues anyway, and the tone on my solos blew them away, and they were playing some pretty expensive gear. However, I wouldn't dare kick on the drive channel on that amp because it really sucks bad.

Pete, that's how I want a clean module done. No breakup no matter how hard your pick attack. Clear piano-like tones. No glassy jangle. Not like the Blackface. I'm seeing this and that Humble Overdrive Special in the RM22 head.

Julia said:

The best clean tone I've gotten has been on my Fender HR Deville 212

Click to expand...

Yes, I must agree.

My favorite clean sound (of all my amps) is my '94 Fender Blues Deville 2X12". It has what a friend of mine coined, a "girl sound" or "woman tone"
It's a beautiful tone and doesn't seem to color the sound much...lets you hear the guitar's sound.
This is the version before they decided to add distortion.
They quit making (and didn't reissue) the 2x12" version.

How can Voodoo amps "hop up" your power section without going over certain tolerances in the amp's circuit design?

Power supplies can be designed numerous different ways, all depending on one?s over all tonal needs and goals. Amps sell at various price points depending on price of components, etc. Some are designed for affordability while others are designed for maximum tone, though it tends to cost more. The price points can be very different from one another but it depends on one's own personal needs.


Have a great day
Trace

OK...I kinda have my answer. (from the horse's mouth, no less)

Thanks for that, BTW.

I guess my next question (related to this) would be...

Are their electronic parts manufacturers that make parts with very accurate, consistant tolerances/values? ...that cost a good bit more?
Or is that the trick? Matching the design with the most exacting parts to complement the design and provide a more true tone?

Let me preface this by saying, to fully answer your question goes beyond the scope of posting in a form. I will do my best to explain while not making it overly techy.

Are their electronic parts manufacturers that make parts with very accurate, consistant tolerances/values? ...that cost a good bit more?

Yes there are components that have consistent values and it comes down to tolerances. Many components have a 10% tolerance which is fairly common. IE: it can be 10% above or below the values specified. Others are within 1% and tighter all depending in the component in question.

Or is that the trick? Matching the design with the most exacting parts to complement the design and provide a more true tone?

Where the art comes into play - Components/parts have to be made from something and the materials used as well as the process to create it directly affects how components sound/feel. IE: I have tried ten (10) different .002uF polypropylene caps rated at 400VDC and that were all very high quality. Every cap sounded different and equally important also felt different when playing on the amp.

Take this one cap along and multiple that times all the caps and resistors in the amp. Add to it the transformers, voltages, tubes, wires/traces, etc and you have a multitude of possibilities. How one chooses to compile all of these variables is where the art comes into play.

I hope this helps to give you a glimpse into what is involved in amp design, redesign/modifications as well as upgrades. My very best advice is to find a tech who understand and can also meet your needs. Tone is a matter of taste and as with all matters of taste there can be no right or wrong. In the end, as long as you are happy with your tone then it does not matter how you got there or what you use.


Have a great day!
Trace

Thank You, Trace.

No further questions.

guitarcomet said:

Thank You, Trace.

No further questions.

Click to expand...

No thanks are necessary, I am more than happy to be of help where ever I can

Have a great weekend!
Trace

Just to add to what Trace said (which was awesome, by the way... I've known Trace for years and he's a great guy who does amazing work):

Let's say you have a plate resistor that is 100k. If the part has a 10% tolerance, it could be 90k OR 110k or anywhere in between. Some older parts on amps had a 20% or worse tolerance. Many of these parts can help give an amp a more vintage tone IMHO... but you have to weed through parts and measure them and have an idea of what effect they will have on the amp.

This is one of the reasons why tube amps and older amps in particular can sound so different. Ever hear two old marshalls - one has more gain and the other one is cleaner? It could be just part 'drift' - parts can also lose tolerance as they get older and go to one extreme or the other. This can be 'blueprinted' - you measure the magic sounding marshall, and then use those values on others and you can get some of the mojo.

Also amps can have parts that even when new were in tolerance but in different directions - meaning that no two amps are ever going to be identical. That's the blessing and the curse of tube amps in my opinion - there's infinite variety. Generally smaller builders can mitigate this by testing parts and tweaking by ear... larger companies are going to pretty much just use parts that are in tolerance and let it go.

This is NOT a slam on larger companies, it's just that when you're doing large volumes of amps it's a lot harder to go through and hand pick components for a tone, or to have a guy sit at the end of the assembly line and playtest each amp, and then replace one or two parts to make it more uniform. If the larger companies did this, then your amp prices would go up quite a bit because small costs can add up!

Pete

My teachers use to hate me because I ask so many questions.

I have one or two more.

In my life, I've learned that "the good stuff" doesn't breakdown.
Good Stuff would also include parts that are tested, graded and sold with guaranteed resistance or tolerances/current flow.
The good stuff almost always costs double if not more.

So, is there a part maker that has products that are this strictly made?

Or are electronic parts susceptible to instantly losing consistency due to voltage/current spikes (on/off) in the rigors of use, even when new?