Mic Placement and the "shavering" method.

MadHatter_Lurch said:

What kind of interface do you use? between the amp and the computer? I need to get one before I can record again. Thanks!

Peace!
Needs Mad to Hat interface

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I use a Lexicon Alpha, which I don't necessarily recommend (cumbersome drivers, not beautiful casing, no exceptional audio quality)
Or my Digitech GSP1101 (which is not really an option for you think, it just happens to be a function on that fx processor)

btw Daryl, sorry for facilitating a gigantic threadjack here
You are welcome to piss all over one of my threads :lol:

m0jo said:

MadHatter_Lurch said:

What kind of interface do you use? between the amp and the computer? I need to get one before I can record again. Thanks!

Peace!
Needs Mad to Hat interface

Click to expand...

I use a Lexicon Alpha, which I don't necessarily recommend (cumbersome drivers, not beautiful casing, no exceptional audio quality)
Or my Digitech GSP1101 (which is not really an option for you think, it just happens to be a function on that fx processor)

btw Daryl, sorry for facilitating a gigantic threadjack here
You are welcome to piss all over one of my threads :lol:

Click to expand...

I think that it is kind of funny and a sign of the times. This thread started out as a post of the "shavering method", a conventional style recording method. Now it is about IRs and computer based interfaces. I would hope that all of you guys integrate the two styles into your approach to recording. You never know what will sound good and it's best to know how to do the whole mic on the cab thing when all else fails. Plus it's good for when you are playing a show.
Don't worry about the threadjack, Mojo. You were trying to give some advice about stuff you know to a fellow forum member. No harm in that. In fact, that is the whole idea behind this forum thing anyway. Share ideas, help with issues, point out cool gear, and give each other support in general. Don't ever be afraid to share what you got. More knowledge makes us all stronger. Peace.

Daryl said:

m0jo said:

MadHatter_Lurch said:

What kind of interface do you use? between the amp and the computer? I need to get one before I can record again. Thanks!

Peace!
Needs Mad to Hat interface

Click to expand...

I use a Lexicon Alpha, which I don't necessarily recommend (cumbersome drivers, not beautiful casing, no exceptional audio quality)
Or my Digitech GSP1101 (which is not really an option for you think, it just happens to be a function on that fx processor)

btw Daryl, sorry for facilitating a gigantic threadjack here
You are welcome to piss all over one of my threads :lol:

Click to expand...

I think that it is kind of funny and a sign of the times. This thread started out as a post of the "shavering method", a conventional style recording method. Now it is about IRs and computer based interfaces. I would hope that all of you guys integrate the two styles into your approach to recording. You never know what will sound good and it's best to know how to do the whole mic on the cab thing when all else fails. Plus it's good for when you are playing a show.
Don't worry about the threadjack, Mojo. You were trying to give some advice about stuff you know to a fellow forum member. No harm in that. In fact, that is the whole idea behind this forum thing anyway. Share ideas, help with issues, point out cool gear, and give each other support in general. Don't ever be afraid to share what you got. More knowledge makes us all stronger. Peace.

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Yep

That is funny haha

Well like I stated before, IRs are only an EQ and reverb simulator.
We were in the studio with the band this weekend, and I had my cab miced up properly in a good dampened room, meaning I could ramp up the poweramp.
You definitly hear that in the sound, like the difference between digital modeling and a real amp .. it's more alive (not as big a difference, but in the same area)

Next time we're in I'm definitly going to record 3 tracks:
- direct (for reamping, we did that with the rythm guitarist, it's very nice to just sit down and listen, not having to play while you tweak the sound)
- after preamp (for IR use, can be very usefull for adding in effects and getting a tighter track_
- miced up (for the main recorded sound, hopefully not requiring any reamping)

All of these possibilities.. it would almost distract from the music
I love crafting the best tone I've ever heard!

Id welcome any comments on this..
So far Ive used IR on a Reverb program, with the settings on all wet..and Ive got all these "cabinet Irs...4x12 1x12 etc etc and ya know what? Sounds weird. To me. Maybe I never spent enough time actually miccing up these actual cabs but to my ears it all sounds small and impotent.
I currently use an ada cab simulator..its a rack piece of gear and it does a decent job..and its quick..and that accounts for something,imho.
But i long for an ada ampulator..which was another rack piece of gear that supposedly really does a great job, but is no longer made..and goes for big bux. Somebody on this forum has one and I am..naturally envious..being a gear nut and all.
GtrGeorge
....you concur?????

GtrGeorge! said:

Id welcome any comments on this..
So far Ive used IR on a Reverb program, with the settings on all wet..and Ive got all these "cabinet Irs...4x12 1x12 etc etc and ya know what? Sounds weird. To me. Maybe I never spent enough time actually miccing up these actual cabs but to my ears it all sounds small and impotent.
I currently use an ada cab simulator..its a rack piece of gear and it does a decent job..and its quick..and that accounts for something,imho.
But i long for an ada ampulator..which was another rack piece of gear that supposedly really does a great job, but is no longer made..and goes for big bux. Somebody on this forum has one and I am..naturally envious..being a gear nut and all.
GtrGeorge
....you concur?????

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Hmm, what IRs are you using?

There's a huge difference between the producers of different IR's because of their setups (mic placement, gear settings, mic preamp, interface etc.)
Have you tried GuitarHack's IRs?

If not let me know and I'll shoot you a download link for 'em.
If you have them, try out the Sneap styles, they are my favorite!

m0jo said:

If not let me know and I'll shoot you a download link for 'em.
If you have them, try out the Sneap styles, they are my favorite!

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Are those the ones that make everything you play sound like it's running through a 5150? :lol:

Shinozoku said:

m0jo said:

If not let me know and I'll shoot you a download link for 'em.
If you have them, try out the Sneap styles, they are my favorite!

Click to expand...

Are those the ones that make everything you play sound like it's running through a 5150? :lol:

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Haha, almost

As far as IR's go. I think they are cool. I still think that it is really important to know the old school methods for getting a great tone with a mic off of your cabs. Especially in a live situation, it is important to get the best mic'd tone you can and quick. So I say use the IR's but don't forget to use your mic's. You may find a really good tone with a 5 minute mic setup that rivals an hour of messing around with IR's to find the "right" one. If you know what tone you like and got nice cabs why not just mic them up and rip? This "shavering" method really makes the setup easy and 5 minutes or less if you got your amp set up already. Not to mention the hours of research and testing of different IR programs to find the best ones.
So don't forget the mic and cab methods of recording and don't be afraid to try the IR's either. You never know what will do it for you tone-wise. Every ear is entirely different paradigm.

Totally agree... I'd go so far as to suggest that understanding the dynamics of mic + speaker interaction GREATLY HELPS when using IR's... to be able to understand the freq. response curves of both different mics and different speakers, to understand the impact of proximity effect + on/off-axis placement, to understand positioning against cone vs. cap... all of them greatly help when picking the right IR for the job.

And for that (back to the OP) the shavering method is a pretty cool way to learn.

--B

bduersch said:

Totally agree... I'd go so far as to suggest that understanding the dynamics of mic + speaker interaction GREATLY HELPS when using IR's... to be able to understand the freq. response curves of both different mics and different speakers, to understand the impact of proximity effect + on/off-axis placement, to understand positioning against cone vs. cap... all of them greatly help when picking the right IR for the job.

And for that (back to the OP) the shavering method is a pretty cool way to learn.

--B

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Yeah...That totally makes sense. Since you are trying to get the sound of a real mic'd situation anyway, it makes perfect sense that it would be invaluable for getting the right IR's. Same with using amp modelers and effects modelers. It helps to know what the real thing does in order to get it to sound just right. I've seen your rig/rigs and you've got some totally killer gear. I watched the clips you posted. You got some tasty tones and a good solid fundamental to your sounds. So you know your stuff for sure. Rock on, bro...

Mojo..
I used a bunch of IR I found online about a year ago...they were done by multiple people and include all sorts of IRs ...including compressors, 4x12 bass cabs,2x12, 1x12 cabs..use of sm57 on 8x10 cab, or senhesier 412 on 2x12 cab etc etc and all sorts of rooms, churches, cathedrels
I have a ton of IRS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But honestly, they dont stand out as great sounding..and usually sound like they are out of phase, that weird "mids are wrong" sound.
..oh and it usually takes 30mins of screwing around until I give up and just go with my ada cab simulator..which acc to salvation sounds just fine (and he has good ears!)
So maybe I should try Guitar hacks? I have his, as well..but dont recall if I ever used them..I think I gave up before I ever got to his IRs..
GtrGeorge