Grail arrived today!

Julia said:

Personally I'm looking for a high gain but non-aggressive tone. Something violin like. I'll have to try my Grail out low gain again with a tubescreamer.

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The Eric Johnson violin tone is not high gain, it's an old Marshall turn WAY up, more power tube juicy goodness.
I have seen him in concert 3 times and once I was right in front and could hear his amps over the P.A.

There is a lot of guitar tones that are near impossible to get at even mid volume.
There is a natural phenomenon that happens when you turn the volume up, the bass and treble frequencies are attenuated. Remember the "loudness" button they use to put on stereos back in the 80's, it would boost those frequencies to simulate that when you used it. It was meant to be used at lower volume, sadly people would use all the time and then it would sound weird when cranked.

I hate playing small bars because its harder to make the P.A. punch when you can't turn it up enough to move some air.
Rock & Metal should not only be heard, it should be felt!

LRStrat said:

Julia said:

Personally I'm looking for a high gain but non-aggressive tone. Something violin like. I'll have to try my Grail out low gain again with a tubescreamer.

Click to expand...

The Eric Johnson violin tone is not high gain, it's an old Marshall turn WAY up, more power tube juicy goodness.
I have seen him in concert 3 times and once I was right in front and could hear his amps over the P.A.

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I'm thinking more along the lines of this:http://www.customtonesinc.com/ or this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUbf8FOu2ek

I guess I'm getting old. The latter is a Dumble, but he now uses a Zendrive 2 and a Fender amp live.

Guys, guys...dont jump all over me coz I was having a good old rant! I just hate being disappointed when my expectations are built up on opinions, and are not realised in the end.

Sure, the Grail might be one of the better sounding modules out of the box. But still, hasn't lived up to all the hype of being "the most Rectifier-like module". It's just not as aggressive as I expected it to be.

Again, dont crucify me for my opinions based on genuine disappointment.

Harsh makes a good point in that he is dissatisfied... I feel there are many high gain modules that are really good but where is the one stock from Randall thats going to kill. I hear the SL+ and the 1086 are great... the Mr Scary and Grail are high gain and great modules but still Randall needs to out do the modders ( no offence to the modders ) and create a stock module that will just kill. They have Bruce Egnater on thier side so whats holding them back... price point.
Peavey now has the $3000 Masterpiece hand wired fine wood combo amp. Will Peavey sell as many of those as the cheaper stuff?? NO! But atleast they put out something very respectfull and competative in the hand wired boutique market.

I'd pay more for a great module... hell I paid more for the Signature modules... which by the way I really like... still need that one KILLER HIGH GAIN MODULE... maybe a Cornford based module... winkwink nudge nudge.

OK Harsh your turn!

You guys already nailed the key points though...it's tone and therefore totally subjective

We've probably all made lists in several forums about what the best modules are and even tried to steer people when looking for certain tones...at the end of the day it's all just opinion.

I reached the point already where I believe that there is very little difference in many of the high gain tones in the modules and if you truly want a "Insert amp name module" here....you should accept that it will either only be some% of the way there or give up and buy a stable of amps!

The modded stuff (to me) is purely icing on the cake in most cases..whether that's features or (arguably minor) tonal improvements.


I hope that didn't sound too negative...it wasn't intended, there are certainly fantastic tones to be had.


Harsh: your stuff is killer heavy .. I don't think the Grail has that kind of 'dense' feel to the distortion...if you boosted it or double tracked it'd be heavy enough for me...but maybe not for you...s'all subjective innit?

harsh said:

Guys, guys...dont jump all over me coz I was having a good old rant! I just hate being disappointed when my expectations are built up on opinions, and are not realised in the end.

Again, dont crucify me for my opinions based on genuine disappointment.

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I did not mean to offend any one. It's kind of tough to decide which module to get when you are unable to play them yourself.

I just wanted to stick up for Randall, its not their fault that others may have steered you in the wrong direction.

I believe it would be very hard for Randall to compete with the modders because the Modders tweak it to your taste.

So if I were to try to get a recto sound should I stay away from the grail and just get a recto - treadplate modded?

Ah, it's good when we're like one happy family in the end here. I thought the criticism would go on, but glad everyone's being nice

So, I used the Grail for 2 shows, nicely cranked. It's good for the chuggy stuff but cant get a sustain out of any squeals. Maybe its just not meant to!

Yep, I'll use my modded Recto for any Killswitch kinda stuff, and use the Grail for more of the Grindcore stuff we do.

used the new settings on the GRAIL this saturday at Drummer Auditions ( we have a new drummer now ! ) Definetly more mass and top end sizzle thought it's a soft sizzle. The lower mids have more grind now.

Right away the other guys in the band commented on the change... for me it's a better lead tone than a rhythm tone. It definetly nails that 90's Dual Rec tone and stays out of the Vocal's shelf entirely.

Cheers
Craig

I really dig the sound of this module. Disclaimer: I have never played a Rectifier, so my opinion, on if it nails that tone is worthless.

It has the gain level I expected. Definately more than the Plexi & not quite as much as the Blackplate SL+ but close. This module can get fuzzy, especially with the treble turned down low. It has a heavier feel than my Blackplate SL+. At higher gain settings his module cleans up better than the SL+, not as good as the Plexi. Although I could not get the Plexi to give me that heaviness I desired when cranked. I had a 12AU7 in V1 which helped clean it up when rolling the guitar volume down. This resulted in having to have the gain dimed but otherwise it was cool. With the 12AX7 in there it doesn't clean up so well. Maybe we will call it cleanish. This probably means I need to work on my picking technique again if I am going to use this module for clean to mean with the volume pedal.
I dialed it in to mimmick the tone I was getting from my Silver plate SL+. FYI, the Silverplate SL+ has alot more bass in it than the Grail.

My settings with the 12AX7 in V1:
Gain: 2:30 (7.5)
Bass: 3:30 (8.5)
Mid: 8:30 (1.5)
Treble: 11:00 (4)
Level: cranked/dimed/etc
Bright switch: on

Wow...year old thread bumpo!

Hope you get that pot fixed man, the Grail is probably my favourite module...has been from the first day I got it.

JKD said:

Wow...year old thread bumpo!

Hope you get that pot fixed man, the Grail is probably my favourite module...has been from the first day I got it.

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Yeah I don't really know Forum thread etiquette so I just bumped an old one that seemed similar to the subject of my post. :lol:

I'll likely have the local music store tech replace the pot. Right now it is ranking up there as the module to use 1st. Could just be NMD syndrome though. :lol:

Strange strange day. I was screwing around and I thought the Grail needed more gain. Dimed the gain & it still seemed like it needed more. Kicked in the TS9 and I pretty much nailed the SL+ tone I have going on. It was actually kind of cool, although now it makes me think I need the Grail modded for more gain/gain boost switch.

SL+ settings:
Gain - 2:30
Bass - 2:00
Mids - 11:00
Treble - 1:00
Bright switch on

Grail-TS9 settings:
TS9:
Drive - 7:00
Tone - 10:00
Level - 2:45

Grail (12AU7 in V1):
Gain - 5:00 (dimed)
Bass - 3:00
Mids - 10:30
Treble - 12:00
Bright switch off

If you need more gain out of the Grail, why not put the 12ax7 back in it?

Don't AU7's have something like 20% of the gain of a regular ax7?

Good point. I originally put the 12AU7 in to help clean it up when rolling off the volume. Obviously I can get a clean sound with the Tweed. I may have to put a 12AX7 back in the Grail to see what results I get. Although kids are asleep, so it will have to wait for another day.

I love the Grail module....For my taste and after MANY tube changes- I use a Penta 12AX7M in V1 and a TungSolEcc803HG (Gold pin) for V2...Really makes it roar....A Sovtek in V1 ain't bad either coupled with a Ruby12AX7HG+ in V2 if you want to go the less expensive route...I think having a good tone tube in V1 coupled with a high gainer in V2 makes all the difference...I use a high gainer in V2 of almost all my high gain modules...Even with a 5751 in V1 - a high gainer in V2 will add that perceived gain back...

Good luck!

Grail to me is a metal rhythm tone. All I want to play on it is power chords. With 12AX7s I have the gain set at about 10:00. But still I find it lacks the 3D tone of Mr. Scary. But then it is a Mesa tone.

Don't listen to me. I'm playing bone clean and looking at the Ibanez Artcores. I've got this gold Super 58 neck pickup that's been sitting in a drawer -- I paid like $30 for this pickup. I don't know if I'm going to play rock again.

so. .. the grail is based on the recto correcto? Who's got the component diff's documented... i don't own a grail and I be interested to see the diff to recto. Anyone?