GTO The Judge questions

Just picked up a GTO/The Judge module. It sounds really good, but I have a couple of questions for anyone else who has/had one:

1. Should there be a volume drop when switching the mode switch to the right? (mine does this).

2. Where should it be gain-wise? Mine doesn't seem to have the amount of gain I've heard in clips - it has less than the stock XTC module, for example.

I've tried switching tubes, and I still notice the issues above.

Thanks in advance for your time.

The change in amount of high end gives the impression of a drop in volume. There really isn't.

Mine seemed to have less gain than I hear in the clips also but the gain knob is also on 10 in most of them and speakers/guitars/the player will vary the perceived amount of gain that you can hear on a clip. I have found that it's not very common to be able to use most modules with the gain knob on 10 without them getting very furry. This is a plus with The Judge.

On the negative side, I found that the gain knob needs to be over noon or it's a little thin. I like to boost most of my modules and The Judge does love a good boost out front.

Cool - thanks! I guess it's a another case of the old Fletcher-Munson curve faking me out.

You're right about the gain - it stays clear when dimed, and I can punch it with my George Lynch Time Machine boost if that's not enough.

You could also have a modder simply add a gain boost...Wouldn't be a big expense...AND give it a front boost....Me likey the gainey....

Oh yeah, drop a High Gain tube in V2 and a really clear tube in V1....You can get good high gain tubes anywhere....Ruby 12AX7AC5HG+ are my current faves and go for anywhere between 15-18 bucks...And yes, they are just rebranded tubes...But I've NEVER had a bad one...Just my .02....

eyeball987 nailed it regarding this mod. I don't notice a decrease in volume just EQ change. No increase in Gain either from the 2 modes.

Now that my GTO/Judge has broken in, I am digging the left side. The right seems kind of dull/muddy to me. Recently I was thinking it needed more gain. I've been boosting it with an EH LPB-1 boost. I really like this tone. I have the Mod gain at about 2-3p & the boost gain at about 12:30-1p. I am kind of thinking I should PM SacredGroove about a mod for the mode switch to incorporate the boost & EQ coloration of the LPB-1 on Mode 1 when it is switched to mode 2. The other option is to take Figs suggestion & try a High Gain tube in V2.

Or pull the 12AU7 from the RM4 input & replace it with a 12AX7.

Hamner1 said:

I am kind of thinking I should PM SacredGroove about a mod for the mode switch to incorporate the boost & EQ coloration of the LPB-1.

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Good point. I liked the Judge but was expecting something more I guess. I will wait until I can pick up a used one for under $200 before I look at having one modded though.

Hamner1 said:

Or pull the 12AU7 from the RM4 input & replace it with a 12AX7.

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Oh yeah...Didn't read that part or absorb it...One or the other...I'd def put a 12AX7 in there...And still use a HG tube in V2....You will be surprised at how much it jumps to life...

Mattfig said:

Hamner1 said:

Or pull the 12AU7 from the RM4 input & replace it with a 12AX7.

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Oh yeah...Didn't read that part or absorb it...One or the other...I'd def put a 12AX7 in there...And still use a HG tube in V2....You will be surprised at how much it jumps to life...

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I just did it & wow what a difference. Stock tubes in the GTO, replaced Chinesse 12AU7, in the RM4 input, to ECC83 S & holy crap all of the modules came alive with thickness/balls and gain. Although the Grail cleans up like **** now. But I guess it never really was intended to be a clean module. Man this MTS stuff is fun. :twisted:

Hamner1 said:

Mattfig said:

Hamner1 said:

Or pull the 12AU7 from the RM4 input & replace it with a 12AX7.

Click to expand...

Oh yeah...Didn't read that part or absorb it...One or the other...I'd def put a 12AX7 in there...And still use a HG tube in V2....You will be surprised at how much it jumps to life...

Click to expand...

I just did it & wow what a difference. Stock tubes in the GTO, replaced Chinesse 12AU7, in the RM4 input, to ECC83 S & holy crap all of the modules came alive with thickness/balls and gain. Although the Grail cleans up like s*&t now. But I guess it never really was intended to be a clean module. Man this MTS stuff is fun. :twisted:

Click to expand...

Those kinda moments in MTS are what makes it worthwhile....You change a tube, setting, whatever and it morphs into something even cooler....It takes awhile to tame it but you can tame that Grail....It will be clean but probably not the clean you seek...A little birdie told me there is one clean to rule them all and it's not far from release anyway.... :twisted:

Mattfig said:

A little birdie told me there is one clean to rule them all and it's not far from release anyway.... :twisted:

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Salvo or Sacred? Inquiring minds :lol:

Hamner1 said:

Mattfig said:

A little birdie told me there is one clean to rule them all and it's not far from release anyway.... :twisted:

Click to expand...

Salvo or Sacred? Inquiring minds :lol:

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Wish I could say more...Safely said, you will want one...Everyone will...

Thanks everyone for the responses and advice. I am running some old glass in the Judge - a GE branded (made it Great Britain - could it be ...) 12AX7 and a Sylvania. Sounds great - I'm just not used to running the gain full out and still wanting a little more.

Luckily I have my trusty George Lynch Time Machine boost to push it even farther.

Looking back at the videos I realize they're with a different amp (the RM20 I think) and cabinet (EVH 5150 III 4x12), and probably cranked a lot louder.

Lumpy Trousers said:

Thanks everyone for the responses and advice. I am running some old glass in the Judge - a GE branded (made it Great Britain - could it be ...) 12AX7 and a Sylvania. Sounds great - I'm just not used to running the gain full out and still wanting a little more.

Luckily I have my trusty George Lynch Time Machine boost to push it even farther.

Looking back at the videos I realize they're with a different amp (the RM20 I think) and cabinet (EVH 5150 III 4x12), and probably cranked a lot louder.

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True. Possibly some EL84 breakup going on. George uses his Cusack Screamer as an on all the time type of pedal so the module was made to be boosted.

I have an RM100 with 6L6's running through a 5150lll cab(among others), and I get very similar amounts of gain to the clip you speak of. GTO preamp tubes are V1-TAD 7025 S, V2-Mullard reissue. T'is a great sounding cab though. I find my gain knob is normally at 3 o'clockish. No boost. With medium output Dimarzio's. I have got different preamp tubes in the amp itself too.

Now that my GTO/Judge has broken in, I am digging the left side. The right seems kind of dull/muddy to me. Recently I was thinking it needed more gain. I've been boosting it with an EH LPB-1 boost. I really like this tone. I have the Mod gain at about 2-3p & the boost gain at about 12:30-1p. I am kind of thinking I should PM SacredGroove about a mod for the mode switch to incorporate the boost & EQ coloration of the LPB-1 on Mode 1 when it is switched to mode 2. The other option is to take Figs suggestion & try a High Gain tube in V2.

Click to expand...

Agreed.. I just got mine this week and at first I have to admit I was a little dissapointed as i also was expecting more.. I find it a little flatter and less bright than my Brahma but after a while I like how smooth it is. The right side is useless to me too. Soo dark.. i also have that apparent volume cut. The left side is where it is at and i also like to run the gain out right. I wish there was a tad more gain BUT the good news is that it is wicked with pedals. Better than the SL+ I modded (which now to my ears feels more like it is better suited to heavier metal) and the Brahma. I think for me the bulk of my recording is going to be between the Judge and Brahma and maybe my JCM800 with 6550's.

I was finding the same thing, that the SL+ (or Scary) works great for heavier stuff. The GTO (left side) seems to do well with producing Cinderella, Britny Fox, Kix, etc type tones. I suppose I could roll off the gain on the SL+ and get the same/similar.

I have the gain on the GTO set at 3:00 these days. The boost just makes it ooze thickness.

I bought a Judge online recently and had my first chance to try it out last night, just a quick bit of noodling through an RM20. I gotta say, the Bright switch on mine seemed to have a much more drastic effect on the sound than the Mode switch did.

On all the other MTS modules I own, the Bright switch just adds a touch of presence / sparkle, one which becomes less and less noticeable as the master volume (and sometimes the gain) is increased. On this Judge module, when the Gain is anywhere below 1 o'clock or so the Bright switch acts like a treble booster pedal cranked all the way up -- and not in a good way. The relative volume seems to double, most of the bass and mids disappear, and the gain turns to fizz; even the neck pickup sounded icepicky.

Is this more or less true of other Judges you guys have tried too, or is mine on the fritz?

Yes iekobrid the Judge definitely doesn't do low gain like the Brahma can. Gain below 1ish on The Judge = thin trebly crappy sound. Use Brahma for the lower gain stuff. My Judge does better mid-higher gain sounds than the Brahma. It's such a pity Randall discontinued the Brahma when the Judge doesn't cover all that it did. Maybe George doesn't need a lower gain module.

RADE01 said:

Yes iekobrid the Judge definitely doesn't do low gain like the Brahma can. Gain below 1ish on The Judge = thin trebly crappy sound. Use Brahma for the lower gain stuff. My Judge does better mid-higher gain sounds than the Brahma. It's such a pity Randall discontinued the Brahma when the Judge doesn't cover all that it did.

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+ on the above statements. Keep in mind if it is new it will still change some when broken in. When mine was new I loved mode 2. I thought mode 1 was to thin/trebly. Try these settings and see what you think.
Gain 3:00
Bass 3:00
Mid 1:00
Treb 12:00
Level dimed, Amp master 8:30-9:00
Bright - off, Mode 1 (left)

RADE01 said:

Maybe George doesn't need a lower gain module.

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He does not, he has a hardwired sig head now. No need for modules. :lol: