Lynch Tone mods

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khingpynn
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Lynch Tone mods

Post by khingpynn » Tue Feb 02, 2010 2:02 pm

I've allways liked George's tone on Under Lock and Key.

With all the moddeling going on out there, didigtal, SS, and tube, it's my thought that someone should try and capture that recorded tone.

Sorta like what Tech 21 did with the very excellent "American Woman" where they captured the tone of Randy's lead on the studio version of the Guess Who song American Woman.

To you modders out there... what are your thoughts on this... do-able?

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Post by tehuk » Tue Feb 02, 2010 2:52 pm

I play Unchain the Night, In my Dreams, and Til the Livin' End often at gigs. I nail the tone with a cusack screamer in front of a brahma and a furman pq3 in the loop.

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Re: Lynch Tone mods

Post by Goldfish » Tue Feb 02, 2010 2:52 pm

Under lock and key is my all-time favorite Lynch tone (and favorite all-around playing). I used to spend a bit of time reading up on what went down in those tracking sessions with Michael Wagener. The unique thing about that tone is that his recording setup was very multi-layered and complex.

What you're hearing (main crunch tone) is a combination of four amps:

a)Lee Jackson-(heavily) modded Marshall
b)Aspen Pittmans purple plexi
c)Laney head #1
d)Laney head #2

I haven't been able to figure out which Laney models. In the Big room, the Marshall #1 head was used for highs, the Laney #1 for the low end.

The micing setup was monstrous:
Marshall #1 + Laney #1 through 2 cabs in a big room - 14 mics
Laney #2 (w/ a Boss chorus) through 1 cab in a second, smaller room - 1 mic
Marshall #2 through 1 cab in a third room - 1 mic
All 16 mics through an MCI 500, summed to one mono buss, through a Urei 530 eq - through a Fostex porta (George's own Porta), printed to mitsubishi Digital recorder.

So the trick would be how to replicate such a multi-layered tone with one amp... It's quite a unique sound. I love it.
Last edited by Goldfish on Sun Mar 07, 2010 7:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by felineguitars » Tue Feb 02, 2010 5:52 pm

Some nice info there
It is one of my all time favourite tones
Live on that tour he used the famous S.I.R. No39 amp that Slash later used to record much of Appetite For Deastruction with - just rented it out for much of the tour.

I find the Mr Scary module too fizzy for that particular tone and the Brahma just doesn't have enough fullness.
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Post by khingpynn » Tue Feb 02, 2010 5:56 pm

There is some good info on the recording sessions in the magazines over the years. I remember the mic setup description and the room both being monsterous... Wegener was also instrumental in that tone ofcoarse... George gave most of the credit to the Purple Plexi.

I also read an interview with Wegener on working with George... he had praise for his ability to have inspired performances in teh studio and his ear.

I can get close to that tone but even close is far off... it's such a great tone with many details... my personal favorite and yeah George's playing is excellent.

UL&K is an all time favorite for me.

If I could get a module that nailed that s*&t it would be awsome... I'm not sure if it's possible... more likely is a digital modelling unit.

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Post by djkal » Wed Feb 03, 2010 12:05 pm

im also a great fan of George tone

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Post by khingpynn » Fri Feb 05, 2010 12:18 pm

Nice Tiger... I've owned the Kami IV but recently sold it... the Lynch Guitars are great... here is GL playing his Kami IV... notice anything different about it... seconmd song in teh vid... Shadows of Life... one of my favorite Dokken songs... George just kills on this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0NkRm1s_io

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Post by djkal » Fri Feb 05, 2010 1:13 pm

thanks i am not sure about the video his guitar looks like a prototype has a sustainer,, the amp in the back looks like fender,
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Re: Lynch Tone mods

Post by Julia » Fri Feb 05, 2010 1:23 pm

Goldfish wrote:Under lock and key is my all-time favorite Lynch tone (and favorite all-around playing). I used to spend a bit of time reading up on what went down in those tracking sessions with Michael Wagener. The unique thing about that tone is that his recording setup was very multi-layered and complex.

What you're hearing (main crunch tone) is a combination of four amps:

a)Lee Jackson-(heavily) modded Marshall
b)Aspen Pittmans purple plexi
c)Laney head #1
d)Laney head #2

I haven't been able to figure out which Laney models. In the Big room, the Marshall #1 head was used for highs, the Laney #1 for the low end.

The micing setup was monstrous:
Marshall #1 + Laney #1 through 2 cabs in a big room - 14 mics
Laney #2 (w/ a Boss chorus) through 1 cab in a second, smaller room - 1 mic
Marshall #2 through 1 cab in a third room - 1 mic
All 16 mics through an MCI 500, summed to one mono buss, through a Urei 530 eq - through a Fostex porta (George's own Porta), printed to mitsubishi Digital recorder.

So the trick would be how to replicate such a multi-layered tone with one amp... It's quite a unique sound. I love it.
This is why I say: forget about trying to do recorded tones. If you want recorded tones buy an AXE FX where you can dial it all in with various patches.

And that one is mild. SRV tracked 32 amps on "In Step". So if you're going for that sound it ain't happening with a single amp or module.

Randy Rhoads did it on Crazy Train. It wasn't done right. I've heard the original guitar tracks. He re-recorded them three times note for note even the solos, and they mixed them together. People said his tone was awful on that one, but if you got to listen to the tracks isolated you can hear the comb filtering done by poor mixing (they were panned to the same spot -- there needed to be a bit more spread). To duplicate the sound people became accustomed to live he used the stationary wah and distortion+. I got this info and heard the tracks on randyrhoads.tk.
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Re: Lynch Tone mods

Post by Goldfish » Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:54 pm

In Step and ULAK are both fine examples of great analog guitar recordings with some of the best engineers the industry had to offer at the time. I agree that it's probably a pipe dream to recreate a multi-amped, highly multi-miced recording with just one amp. You may or may not get in the ballpark depending on how much one amp dominates the bulk of the final tone. Listen to clips from the ULAK tour and you'll hear hints of the same basic core tone there.

Yep, there are a lot of issues going with the original Rhoads guitar tracks. Phase issues going on from the micing/tracking stage, once you start doubling those tracks you're asking for trouble. Add some sloppy layering etc and it's a bit of a soup, If you do some mid-side and center canceling work on those final mixes you'll hear some interesting things for sure...well let's just say, I was never "fond" of Max Norman's mixes. if you look at that guy's resume, not many albums there appeal to me from a sonics/engineering POV. Rather the opposite. And then Randy's source amp tone, which I tend to vacillate between loving and hating... But still, on a non-technical, deeper level, the album is just timeless, warts and all. And I also tend to think that technical limitations can also add a bit of magic. Just like the old Eddie Kramer Hendrix tracks, or early Ace on Hotter that hell. Sounds like a demo, but man, what magic. Still can't believe Ozzy or whatever company stooge was in charge had the audacity to replace the original drums and bass tracks 20 years later. That's just unbelievably harsh.
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Post by Shinozoku » Fri Feb 05, 2010 3:47 pm

I'd imagine it would be impossible to get that tone with a mono setup... but a stereo MTS setup with two custom modules each designed to have characteristics of a couple of those amps... Much closer ;)
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Post by m0jo » Tue Feb 16, 2010 9:58 am

Shinozoku wrote:I'd imagine it would be impossible to get that tone with a mono setup... but a stereo MTS setup with two custom modules each designed to have characteristics of a couple of those amps... Much closer ;)
My thoughts exactly, if you had 2 modules specifically made to create a stereo image of that tone.
Like a "Lock 'n Key L" and "Lock 'n Key R" :D

But I have pity for the modder that has to tweak values on 2 modules at once :P

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Post by khingpynn » Wed Feb 24, 2010 11:09 am

The guitar in the video is a Kami IV... George stripped the paint off of it.

I was thinking more of a digital modelling approach to the UL&K tone... such as the Axe FX Ultra.

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Re: Lynch Tone mods

Post by Julia » Wed Feb 24, 2010 1:44 pm

Goldfish wrote:Still can't believe Ozzy or whatever company stooge was in charge had the audacity to replace the original drums and bass tracks 20 years later. That's just unbelievably harsh.
One word... Sharon. And since you can no longer get the originals, these redone ones will be the "originals" in 50 years. Of course Ozzy is kind of lucky Sharon didn't have him thrown in jail for beating her within an inch of her life, so Ozzy just goes along these days. And who knows the real story about the bad blood between the drumer and bass player and Sharon?
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Re: Lynch Tone mods

Post by m0jo » Wed Feb 24, 2010 2:01 pm

Julia wrote:
Goldfish wrote:Still can't believe Ozzy or whatever company stooge was in charge had the audacity to replace the original drums and bass tracks 20 years later. That's just unbelievably harsh.
One word... Sharon. And since you can no longer get the originals, these redone ones will be the "originals" in 50 years. Of course Ozzy is kind of lucky Sharon didn't have him thrown in jail for beating her within an inch of her life, so Ozzy just goes along these days. And who knows the real story about the bad blood between the drumer and bass player and Sharon?
She wouldn't .. then she'd have nothing to milk, rape, milk, rape and milk again.

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