Vox type module - tube recommendation

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JKD

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I know I'm potentially opening up a can of worms here but I've always been not quite satisfied with the tone of any Vox type module despite some v1 type experimentation.

Just looking for something a bit gainer and maybe little more body....
 
I seem to recall having the most success in the past with a long plat tube...like the ECC803s...

I have a bunch of stuff lying around c9s, c5s, EH12ax7s (Sovteks presumably), JJs --- all 12ax7/ECC83 types in addition to the stock Egnater tubes - are these a 7025 or something, Sovtek though right?

Currenlty Ruby (chinese c5) in v2.
 
JKD said:
I've always been not quite satisfied with the tone of any Vox type module ... Just looking for something a bit gainer and maybe little more body....

Which modules have you tried already? Is there a particular tonal benchmark you're trying to emulate?

edit: I ask because I have a JF one-off custom module Rob based on the Vox AC30HW. Bought it second- or third-hand and found it to have way more gain than I need in a Vox sound. Very much a lead module.
 
So much of the Vox tone comes from the power section, which consists of four EL84's. Your best bet is to try AC30 style modules with an RM20.
 
Mike P said:
So much of the Vox tone comes from the power section, which consists of four EL84's. Your best bet is to try AC30 style modules with an RM20.

Had an RM20..pretty much hated it, thought the RM50 with Yellow Jackets sounded better...shrug.
 
iekobrid said:
JKD said:
I've always been not quite satisfied with the tone of any Vox type module ... Just looking for something a bit gainer and maybe little more body....

Which modules have you tried already? Is there a particular tonal benchmark you're trying to emulate?

edit: I ask because I have a JF one-off custom module Rob based on the Vox AC30HW. Bought it second- or third-hand and found it to have way more gain than I need in a Vox sound. Very much a lead module.

SuperV

Egnater Vx

Top Boost - one modded for more gain/mid shift

Single Ch Voxless

Salvation Vox Clone (sorry can't remember name)...hindsight I probably should have kept this one, as the mode switch on that was probably closest to what I was thinking of

Currently Dual Ch Voxless....perhaps I should have asked for more gain or a body switch.
 
JKD said:
Mike P said:
So much of the Vox tone comes from the power section, which consists of four EL84's. Your best bet is to try AC30 style modules with an RM20.

Had an RM20..pretty much hated it, thought the RM50 with Yellow Jackets sounded better...shrug.

Did you hate the RM20 with Vox-style modules or just overall?

It's going to be next to impossible to replicate the sound of a Vox with EL34's, 6L6's, etc. The Sacred Grove CC30 is the closet module I've heard to a real AC30 but even it wasn't nearly as close through my RM100 loaded with 6L6's as it was through my RM20 with Mullard EL84's.

It was probably as close as possible with the RM20. It's a very complicated circuit to clone for MTS and large tubes make it impossible to capture the same sound.
 
I'm probably ignoring bigger things than preamp tubes....

I'm quite enjoying the new Creamback speakers I got...previously I'd been using v30s/G12h30s.....speaker probably has a bigger impact on tone than a preamp tube.

Other thing is more volume...I'm guessing that would be something to try...every AC30 I heard was ungodly loud. :)
 
JKD said:
I'm probably ignoring bigger things than preamp tubes....

I'm quite enjoying the new Creamback speakers I got...previously I'd been using v30s/G12h30s.....speaker probably has a bigger impact on tone than a preamp tube.

Other thing is more volume...I'm guessing that would be something to try...every AC30 I heard was ungodly loud. :)

The best sounding recent vintage AC30's, to my ears anyway, have been loaded with 15 watt Celestion Blue's. My Dad's been gigging his AC30 with Blues for the past 8 years and it sounds great. He also has a Bruno Underground 30 and matching cab with Blue's that sounds awesome as well (it's an AC30 style amp).

But once again, I cannot stress how much the quartet of EL84's contribute to the AC30 sound. Even with an AC30 sounding preamp design, EL34's and 6L6's will give make it sound far more Fenderish, which is a very different sound than an AC30.

Good luck! :D
 
Lot's of truth in here, but here's a little more info:

JKD: I can't recall which module we used as a starting donor, but it was a T/D if I'm not mistaken right? If you need a little more gain and can't get there via tubes I can retune for that. Just cover shipping. Also, the most benefit from tube swaps has way more to do with the tubes tester ratings than the brand name. Many tubes are made in the same factory anyway. To get the most gain out of that mod, find a tube with the highest second number written on it in paint and stick it in V1. For example you would want a 7/10 there instead of a 10/7.

Mike: good point about the EL84's, but even more critical than the tube type is a wacky filtering network in the power amp of the real AC30. HUGE impact on why they sound the way they do.

For the record, I play my modded AC30 possibly more than any other amp. My LB50C is the #2 for personal use. I rolled every speaker you can think of through my Vox the past few months and Creamback M's won by a mile. I liked most speakers in there, but this did everything best. Blues and Golds were tops if I only did cleans. I can't stand how they handle higher gain though. Might be my least favorite speaker for that use ever.
 
Jaded Faith said:
For the record, I play my modded AC30 possibly more than any other amp. My LB50C is the #2 for personal use. I rolled every speaker you can think of through my Vox the past few months and Creamback M's won by a mile. I liked most speakers in there, but this did everything best. Blues and Golds were tops if I only did cleans. I can't stand how they handle higher gain though. Might be my least favorite speaker for that use ever.

That makes sense. My Dad's a blues player, generally with his '65 335 but occasionally with a Les Paul, and his best tones from the Vox are just on the edge of breakup. That's the way I hear AC30's as well, as I'm not a "fan" of the distorted AC30 tone. It's cool and useable of course, it's just not a part of my wheelhouse.

I tend to prefer using an AC30 for that edge of distortion and/or its very unique sounding clean tone.

:D
 
Mike P said:
Jaded Faith said:
For the record, I play my modded AC30 possibly more than any other amp. My LB50C is the #2 for personal use. I rolled every speaker you can think of through my Vox the past few months and Creamback M's won by a mile. I liked most speakers in there, but this did everything best. Blues and Golds were tops if I only did cleans. I can't stand how they handle higher gain though. Might be my least favorite speaker for that use ever.

That makes sense. My Dad's a blues player, generally with his '65 335 but occasionally with a Les Paul, and his best tones from the Vox are just on the edge of breakup. That's the way I hear AC30's as well, as I'm not a "fan" of the distorted AC30 tone. It's cool and useable of course, it's just not a part of my wheelhouse.

I tend to prefer using an AC30 for that edge of distortion and/or its very unique sounding clean tone.

:D
I completely hear you brother and it's probably one of my favorite amps of all time. I think in a perfect world, I'd use two. One for clean to light dirt and another for beyond that. I would use Blues or Golds in the clean and Creambacks in the dirty one. Alas, I needed to compromise for the best of both worlds. I didn't used to care much for the "blizzard of nails" distorted Vox thing, but man do I love it now!
 
Jaded Faith said:
I completely hear you brother and it's probably one of my favorite amps of all time. I think in a perfect world, I'd use two. One for clean to light dirt and another for beyond that. I would use Blues or Golds in the clean and Creambacks in the dirty one. Alas, I needed to compromise for the best of both worlds. I didn't used to care much for the "blizzard of nails" distorted Vox thing, but man do I love it now!

Awesome! I guess I really need to check out the Creambacks at some point. A few years ago, I tried dozens of speakers, including Scumbacks, various Celestions, Jensens and Eminence models, but kept coming back to the Classic Lead 80.
 
Jaded Faith said:
I should also mention I went with a set of Mercury Hadon-style replacement trannys and added a choke. Killer amp now.

Which amp are you using?

Do you find the output transformer replacement and choke to be major upgrades to an RM100?

Thanks in advance, Rob! :)
 
Good discussion guys, thanks.

I need to get me a tube tester one day, I have so many tubes lying about :)

Any brand recommends?
 
JKD said:
Good discussion guys, thanks.

I need to get me a tube tester one day, I have so many tubes lying about :)

Any brand recommends?

I use ARS 12ax7's in all of my modules and RM100 preamp section and a matched quartet of Ruby 6L6's, burned in for 72 hours, for the power section.

I replace all tubes every year on the same date, regardless of how the amps and modules sound. I have an event scheduled in Google Calendar as a reminder.
 
I highly suggest anyone with a serious amp or tube collection to get an entry-level tube tester at the very least. Even something as simple as the Orange VT1000 that I use for basic day-to-day work in the shop can pay for itself in one session of testing if you have a decent tube stash. There are no hard and fast rules on tubes. I see well over a thousand through my shop every year. I see new tubes fail right out of the box, 40 year old tubes with countless hours still going strong as can be and everything in between.

A tester will save you tons of cash in the long haul. You will no longer throw perfectly good tubes away because you used them for a specific period. You will be able to double check the quality of the tubes various suppliers send you (this is CRITICAL). You will be able to establish the strength of every tube you have and use that info to put it in the optimal spot in your gear for the best results. You can match tubes into sets even if they weren't originally a "matched" set. The savings pay for themselves very quickly.

As far as brand recommendations, keep in mind there are four factories left in the world. Regardless of the name silk screened on the tube, they are more similar than you would think. Far more important than the brand is the strength of the tubes. Knowing that will do far more to change the tone (particularly when used in the most ideal positions for that tube) than any change of brand.

For current production, the Chinese and Slovak (JJ) made tubes are the most consistent quality and safest to use in any position. I have had a few issues with Chinese tubes from ARS and Magic Parts (they are Ruby) testing poorly and worn right out of the box. Both companies simply re-brand Chinese tubes with their own logo. They do very little QC testing (if any) and that's part of the gamble for more affordable tubes.
 
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