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MIDI
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wesman11483
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Joined: 31 Jan 2016
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 2:08 pm    Post subject: MIDI Reply with quote

I am fairly new to the MTS world and am looking at integrating MIDI to boot!
Is there a way to either:
-assign a rack unit to just one module, or
-assign said rack unit to the rf4 foot control so I can turn it on/off as well as change preamp modules?

Any advice is greatly appreciated! (I can post pics later if that helps with the ins/outs)
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MarcoR
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, which amp and what processor? You will be limited to midi program change messages only but that should serve you fine for what you want. Most processors have a midi mapping configuration that allows you to map preset # to midi program #. With the rf4 you can only work with midi programs 0-3 or 1-4 depending on how it was implemented. So the cool delay on preset 73 will have to be mapped to PC#3 for it to turn on when you hit switch 4 to select the 4th module on an RM4. You might create a bypass preset and map that to the channels you want dry. You may want killdry enabled or the effect mix set at 100% on the processor and use the parallel loop to preserve your dry tone.
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wesman11483
RM20


Joined: 31 Jan 2016
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Location: Dallas TX

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm running an RM4.
Then I have a 500 series rack unit with a Moog Analog Delay.
I am totally fine having my delay tied to a specific module.

Sorry...total MIDI nube...so would I need to adjust any of the RF4 dip switches for that? (Moog comes pre programmed for MIDI channel 1 according to user manual...so would that mean switching to my first module would also trigger the delay?)

Thanks for the reply! Please keep them coming!!
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MarcoR
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2016 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wesman11483 wrote:
I'm running an RM4.
Then I have a 500 series rack unit with a Moog Analog Delay.
I am totally fine having my delay tied to a specific module.

Sorry...total MIDI nube...so would I need to adjust any of the RF4 dip switches for that? (Moog comes pre programmed for MIDI channel 1 according to user manual...so would that mean switching to my first module would also trigger the delay?)

Thanks for the reply! Please keep them coming!!


Looking through the Moog manual, many parameter can be controlled by midi Control Change messages but I'm not seeing where it allows bypass via CC and no mention of Program Changes. Either way, the RF4 can't accommodate that as it only can send Program Changes. The Moog also doesn't appear to have presets so my first suggestion is out.

To do want you want, I think you'll need a midi controlled audio router/switcher (that supports Midi Program Change) where you could put the Moog in a loop. Then you would be controlling the RM4 and Switcher with the RF4.
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ReidarNikolai
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Joined: 17 Feb 2016
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2016 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You wanted replies Smile

Marco is right.

You need a looper/switcher/router.
There are several types: small to have on pedalboards or 19" to have in the rack. Below are some makers:
RJM Music makes several - effect gizmo and so on - both small and 19". CC and PC.
Axess (out of business) made one - small. Both CC and PC
Custom Audio Electronics make several. These are 19" - mostly. And only CC I think.
There are several others also - on all continents I would guess. If you are outside the US I can give you some other names.
Basically they work as the effect loop in your RM4 - you just add loops. None is made just for one loop - they usually have 4 or more loops.

FYI although I have not found any way of shutting the Moog of in the CC chart is probably doable by turning som controls to zero (0) but then it would still stay in your path - and you would not want that.

But also a thing to consider:
your RF 4 can only do 4 things: that means you can turn on/off each of your modules - the Moog would need to be always on when you turn on the specific module. That means for example module 1 to switch 1 - module 2 to switch 2 -module 3 to switch 3 and module 4 -and Moog to switch 4. Always.

So the RF4 is a bit limited Smile

But one word on Midi: I have tried and tried for many years to avoid it.
But I had to implement Midi in my rigs the moment I wanted to do more than one thing at the time with out having to tap dance.
It might not be very versatile but when you know what you want
switching wise it is very useful - when you get a hold on it. I think.

Sorry if my language is not 100% correct - let me know if something is unclear.

Thanks
ReidarNikolai
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Nightdare
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2016 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the RF4 were to send Continuous Control messages instead of Program Change
it would only relay Control Changes #56 - #59
(channels 1-4 on the RM4, IF operated in CC mode)
None of these seem to be used by the Moog, Bypass for that is found on CC #80

What you could use is a Voodoo labs Groundcontrol
It's capable of sending PC AND CC messages under the same footswitch

A simple setup would be
1 - RM4 1
2 - RM4 2
3 - RM4 3
4 - RM4 4 + Delay bypass off

In 4 preset per bank setup (instant access mode), it can set the CC to "momentary" so that it switched "On" when choosing the channel where you want to enable the delay
and will switch "Off" when going to another channel
Added that you can set one of the other 8 free footswitches to CC #80 allowing bypass in the program itself

So when it comes to PC and CC I know my way around MIDI
just don't start with SYSEX, MSB and LSB
(although if I ever get a controller for my Roland D50, I'll be forced to get acquainted with that as well Laughing )
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ReidarNikolai
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2016 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as I can tell the RF4 donīt do CCīs only PCīs.

The RM4 works Midiwise on CC numbers, but needs to be activated in PC.
When you use the RF4 - that is.

Are you sure about the Moog?
In the manual I looked at - CC80 was Pitch and Delay Time.

But for sure - a different controller would make this easier for you.
It would not have to be a big one like the GCPro - you could look at a Rocktrom Midimate that (I think) can handle both PC and CC.
But changing the foot controller would probably only lead you to need CC use - anyways. If you donīt own a lot of 80īs stuff like I do.

Thanks
ReidarNikolai
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Nightdare
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Joined: 21 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2016 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ReidarNikolai wrote:

Are you sure about the Moog?
In the manual I looked at - CC80 was Pitch and Delay Time.


You are correct, I was looking at the wrong Moog Delay (the MF104 pedal, not the series 500 module)
In which case my advise is void


Last edited by Nightdare on Sun Mar 27, 2016 11:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
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wesman11483
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2016 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow guys, thanks so much!
MIDI really is another language...but I am bound and determined to get it! (I'll definitely post rig pics after all this is said and done!)
So would the M-Audio Midisport 2x2 get the job done??
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MarcoR
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 5:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

So would the M-Audio Midisport 2x2 get the job done??


No, that's a midi interface. You need an audioi router/splitter that is midi controlled. Look for a used Axess GRX4, RJM mini effects gizmo or G-lab midi 2x2, I've used all three. Voodoo Labs makes a small one as well.

To sum it up, you won't be able to control your Moog with your foot controller, you will need to put the whole 500 interface into a looper/switcher/router to take it in/out of the signal path.

Read up on the devices I mentioned and see if it makes more sense.
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Mattfig
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 5:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to mention, I have a Voodoo Labs GCX/GCP that I have used for years that works wonders for your situation. Something smaller would also suit you but if you will expand your rig in the future, I would consider this combo...Very easy to program and works flawlessly.
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Yatagan
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 6:55 am    Post subject: Voodoo Labs GCX/GCP Reply with quote

If you are interrested I have a barely used set of Voodoo Labs GCX/GCP for sale.

I have upgraded my rig with RJM and Sound Sculpture equipment so I am open for offers on the Voodoo set. I will be satisfied with approx 50% of new plus shipping.
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Nightdare
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally, I would change that Series 500 rack for something more guitarsetup/gig friendly
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wesman11483
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Joined: 31 Jan 2016
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nightdare wrote:
Personally, I would change that Series 500 rack for something more guitarsetup/gig friendly


I get where you're coming from...the MOOG just sounds freaking awesome and I don't do a lot of "on the fly" adjustments.

I just picked up a small Effects Gizmo on Reverb...can't wait to get everything firing!
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MarcoR
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wesman11483 wrote:


I just picked up a small Effects Gizmo on Reverb...can't wait to get everything firing!


Awesomeness!
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