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drewiv
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 6:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Note - I'm not saying the prices are too high, as an American manufacturer I know what it costs to do business in the US and compete against imported goods. I'm questioning the demand. I had a 100W, six channel amp, with foot switch available for six months at 50% the price of a new 50W, four channel amp - not a single nibble. I see MOD50's not selling for under $900. Synergy better have a marketing department that can sell ketchup popsicles to women in white gloves.
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Capt_Tippy
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

drewiv wrote:
Note - I'm not saying the prices are too high, as an American manufacturer I know what it costs to do business in the US and compete against imported goods. I'm questioning the demand. I had a 100W, six channel amp, with foot switch available for six months at 50% the price of a new 50W, four channel amp - not a single nibble. I see MOD50's not selling for under $900. Synergy better have a marketing department that can sell ketchup popsicles to women in white gloves.


Ha! That pretty much sums it up!
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Moral of the story, buy extra tubes, and don't pay up charges. Good luck, cause tube buying is a crap shoot.

You're correct. I probably have no idea what I'm talking about. I'm not even sure why I bothered to say anything in the 1st place.
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gtr31
Lynch Box


Joined: 22 May 2006
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Location: ottawa

PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The modular system was a great invention when it came out
I remember seeing the early RM4 and going wow that different
A way to get a Fender Marshall boogie in a box
But that was 10 -12 years ago
The Axe Fx was probably just a proto no Kempers No Helix or Atomic
The landscape for getting multiple tube amp tones at the gig and in the studio
Has changed
The manufacturers have gotten better a tone dynamics and recently have started getting very competitive in price
Also Digital is not such a bad word anymore especially with the next generation of players
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webrthomson
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Joined: 01 May 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Capt_Tippy wrote:
drewiv wrote:
Note - I'm not saying the prices are too high, as an American manufacturer I know what it costs to do business in the US and compete against imported goods. I'm questioning the demand. I had a 100W, six channel amp, with foot switch available for six months at 50% the price of a new 50W, four channel amp - not a single nibble. I see MOD50's not selling for under $900. Synergy better have a marketing department that can sell ketchup popsicles to women in white gloves.


Ha! That pretty much sums it up!


TBH I don't disagree on the amp costs - $1599 / $2199 is too much for a 30/50 watt amp that you have to spend another $399 to get a sound out of!

I can't remember what I paid for my MOD 50 but I'm pretty sure that it was less that $2000 loaded, and mine was one of the last two made.

I think the SYN1 / SYN2 are better value, but again they pale when compared to the new cost of the M4 which was also $799 on the limited run Bruce did a couple of years ago - or about $2K for a fully loaded one when they were in full time production (meaning the M4 cost $400). Now compare that to a fully loaded SYN2 - which is ~$1,600.

Add to that the fact I've got to get them to the UK, import tax (at least 20%) and the current poor exchange rate for the against the $ I think (sadly) I'll be sitting this one out.

Which is annoying as I had the money last NAMM Evil or Very Mad
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gtr31
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Joined: 22 May 2006
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Location: ottawa

PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Mod50 when it was super popular
Was 2000 loaded

The Syn 50 unloaded is 2200

I also agree with Syn30 there is no
Density master or reverb I get that there is simple clean
But I think 1399 would have be closer to reasonable 1800 loaded up
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mikegyver
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Joined: 23 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with what has been said. I sold my MOD 50 + modules almost 2 years ago now, built my own Ceriatone Marshall clone in the mean time while waiting FOREVER to try and possibly buy the new Synergy stuff. The fact that their website isn't even complete, and we've been hearing "just a little longer" for at least over a year now, and now the prices have been posted and are high and don't include one single module for $2k+ is ridiculous IMO. Yes, if someone was going to buy a boutique amp already then those prices are in line with that. However, the regular gigging musician isn't likely going to drop that kind of cash when an even more flexible used Axe-Fx or Kemper can be grabbed for $1700 with 90% of the tone (good enough for live shows for sure) and an unlimited number of amps to choose from. Sorry guys but you're going to have to drop prices to be competitive in the 2017 market to get people to adopt. Throw in ONE basic plexi module or something. Even a printer comes with a starter cartridge. You aren't competing against 2002 Line 6 POD digital junk anymore.
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crankyrayhanky
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Joined: 08 May 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

^True
I may get a Syn1 and a module or 2. I may want to see how the first wave goes for people to makes sure there are no hiccups. There's no way I'm dropping the $ they want for a loaded Syn amp. I am their ideal market too, but it's way high.
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MarcoR
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Joined: 02 May 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been waiting for the Syn-2, the price is fair for what it does so I'm happy.
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Capt_Tippy
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarcoR wrote:
I've been waiting for the Syn-2, the price is fair for what it does so I'm happy.


$800 for an empty preamp is fair?
Then you have to spend another $800 to fill it.
Again you're at used kemper prices.
I didn't really think about that til Mike pointed it out but....
Anyone that buys a 4 channel preamp when they can get a kemper for the same price... you must be smokin some good weed up there Marco.
Gimme your address I'm comin to get some of that lol
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Moral of the story, buy extra tubes, and don't pay up charges. Good luck, cause tube buying is a crap shoot.

You're correct. I probably have no idea what I'm talking about. I'm not even sure why I bothered to say anything in the 1st place.
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JKD
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarcoR wrote:
I've been waiting for the Syn-2, the price is fair for what it does so I'm happy.


I'd be a lot happier at $1,200 fully loaded.....TBH seems much more reasonable for Rack plus two modules.

Maybe it will be $1,400 instead of $1,600 when it comes out?

Egnater gave a steep discount on people buying the pre-amps fully loaded with 4 modules and that was basically hand assembled in the US too ('boutique' production...)
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Mattfig
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We're their key market for sure. Guys just like us- tone hunters and, for Heaven's sake, current MTS users. They give us high prices and phone camera clips...I'm sure the amazing website they have is also rolled into these prices...

I'm not yet sold on Synergy. I will need to actually hear and play it to justify this kinda $$$....Also want to see Gen 1 go out without issue...

Just my .02...

Edited to add that the phone cam clips sound promising....My point was just that I need some more evidence....

Perhaps when it comes out someone will do a side by side of some current mods vs Syn mods....I truly hope it's worth it as I'm interested but not sold....
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lintycreep
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I bought my 50 watt Lynchbox, Randall wanted $1600. Add for inflation today and your up too $1837 for a Chinese made amp head... with two modules.

So is a made in American amp worth $1200 more to you. Not to mention that your getting dual modules instead of singles. I think it's a okay price... if it's something you really want. If not just wait a year and buy it used. It'll drop down a grand.

With that said, if I do purchase anything, it'll be an SYN1 with a couple of modules. However, I would love a completely unbiased video comparing the new modules to the old modded modules, before I make that decision.

I think Synergy is hoping for a whole lot more of a market then the dinosaurs on this site Laughing
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Mattfig
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 4:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lintycreep wrote:
When I bought my 50 watt Lynchbox, Randall wanted $1600. Add for inflation today and your up too $1837 for a Chinese made amp head... with two modules.

So is a made in American amp worth $1200 more to you. Not to mention that your getting dual modules instead of singles. I think it's a okay price... if it's something you really want. If not just wait a year and buy it used. It'll drop down a grand.

With that said, if I do purchase anything, it'll be an SYN1 with a couple of modules. However, I would love a completely unbiased video comparing the new modules to the old modded modules, before I make that decision.

I think Synergy is hoping for a whole lot more of a market then the dinosaurs on this site Laughing


Good point, they desire a very large market but their waiting list is likely comprised of said dinosaurs...
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leonsun
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are a few categories on the market (buy our point of view):
- brand lovers: only the Mesa/Marshall/Fender etc is good enough. Hunting for used equipment mainly, older is better
- tone lovers: usually buying second hand equipments, which are already proved on market. Target is to get good sound from whatever equipment. Usually they looking for tube amps or hi-valued equipments
- gear lovers: "A new product is on the market, I have to try it". Potentials.
- "I don't care anything I need and amp to play" - buying cheap equipment

I think the market positioning based on proper benchmarks is the key for the introduction of a new product to the market. It will be very hard to introduce something new which creates the immediate wish in potential buyers to invest MORE money in a new product than the existing one.

IMO the success of MTS and Egnater modular amps based on two facts:
1. The original idea to provide wide range of famous guitar amp sounds in one product, at a fraction of the price proportionally, avoiding any digital modelling
2. The built-up external services: modders like Salvation, Jaded Faith etc

I simply do not think a new company can get into this market with higher prices than a fully modded module by any of the modder guys..with one exception: if these modular amps become so popular that the second hand market cannot supply enough equipments Smile
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MarcoR
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Capt_Tippy wrote:
MarcoR wrote:
I've been waiting for the Syn-2, the price is fair for what it does so I'm happy.


$800 for an empty preamp is fair?
Then you have to spend another $800 to fill it.
Again you're at used kemper prices.
I didn't really think about that til Mike pointed it out but....
Anyone that buys a 4 channel preamp when they can get a kemper for the same price... you must be smokin some good weed up there Marco.
Gimme your address I'm comin to get some of that lol


I'm not looking at it as just an empty preamp; it is a device that can extend an existing amp. It has a built in midi controlled audio switcher... which may not excite most people because they don't understand the potential.

I'm also not the typical guitar geek, I prefer quality rack FX and struggle with a reasonably portable rack. I could use the Syn-2 to add channels to my Landry G3 which has an amazing power section or as a standalone in the rack.

The Syn-2 with their 1U poweramp and an Eventide Eclipse would be a really powerful small rack. Cheap? nope but I'd take that over a powered Kemper without a second thought. Why? Because each component can be used in multiple rig configurations and are valuable tools individually.

I thinks the Syn-1/2 and power amp will be hits. The Amps are too expensive and the modules will be hit or miss and cost the same as the Egnater duals did. I don't think the masses will get it though...

Anyway, the studio is open to my MTS brothers that want to jamm so come on up!
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