Grail Time!

Just bought a Grail from ebay and it sounds amazing. This is the first signature module i've bought and i have to say i'm impressed.......
However i'm one of those people that can't be happy with things as they are and I have to improve evrything. I;ve already modded my Ultra (had to be done!) and XTC a little, so I was wondering if any of you knowledgable people knew where there are schematics for the Grail or any known mods to make it sound just that little bit better. :wink:
Any help would be greatly recieved.
Cheers guys.

This is one module I actually increased the value of c3 in ... the stock was 500uF I think, so I went with 1000uF to thicken it up a bit.

That said, I like to use a Tubescreamer type pedal out front, which cuts a little bass before going into the amp.

The Grail sounds awesome, my favorite module...2nd is probably Mr Scary...they did such a good job with the sigs

i did the c3 increase to mine as well with a ceramic 0.001 cap , its alot better than the stock. i've been messing with this module for a long time and i finally think today i'm getting what i want out of it. for so long i couldn't get rid of the stiff fatness of the crunch, i don't have an overdrive pedal which would probably have done it. for me it seems like it needs more gain or something to get into some saturation although it does have good gain so its like what do you do. i changed all the pre amp tubes on the chassis in my rm100 and the ones in the grail for the gainiest 12ax7's in my depleting collection and i think i got it where i want it. i love the thicknes of it and the bass is great other than being stiff. i used a metalzone as a boost for a little while but eventhough no distortion was used on the pedal that seering metalzone :roll: made it's way out and sent me back to square one. i should probably get a tube screamer just for more options because my gain on the module is dimed at the moment but i think the high gain tube swap is gonna work for now at least at practice level. band volume is a different story. if only i could put the gain of my ultra xl into the grail 8) . i wish they would have made the recto and the grail more like the real thing, they would have stolen tons of mesa players

ah yes..tubes....this and the Recto love the chinese 12ax7 tubes..mine are eitehr r8 or r9 (with the triple mica)

I think I have either a GT-12ax7c or the Ruby equivalent in v1 of my Grail right now....and a Sovtek LPS in v2...hmm, completely forgot I put that in there..sounds good so it must be OK

jkd- what would you compare that lps to? is it like an eh?thats probably one of the only tubes i haven't used before. imo the chinese 12ax7's are way underated. the relabled ruby's are great plus you can't beat the price of them. they seem to have that gummy , squishy, chewey-bacca wetness to them. how 's that for an adjective :wink: i beleive most would say organic or something like that, anyway love the chinese 12 ax7's no matter what label is on them, just look for the signature inside. btw what does the tube screamer do to the sound of the module ,i mean other than push it harder. i've used some newer different brand overdrives that turned my modules into solid state sounding bassless shrill balls of crap that robbed my amp of its dynamics.

maximus1 said:

jkd- what would you compare that lps to? is it like an eh?thats probably one of the only tubes i haven't used before. imo the chinese 12ax7's are way underated. the relabled ruby's are great plus you can't beat the price of them. they seem to have that gummy , squishy, chewey-bacca wetness to them. how 's that for an adjective :wink: i beleive most would say organic or something like that, anyway love the chinese 12 ax7's no matter what label is on them, just look for the signature inside. btw what does the tube screamer do to the sound of the module ,i mean other than push it harder. i've used some newer different brand overdrives that turned my modules into solid state sounding bassless shrill balls of crap that robbed my amp of its dynamics.

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The LPS is very different..since it's a long plate tube...have to try one. The EH is very generic sounding and can be harsh IMO....LPS is sweeter sounding for sure, not sure where they stack gain wise...good for phase inverter tube too.

Boost pushes it harder...TS types have a hump in the mids plus usually rob a bit of bass.

I mostly use it with the level up and very little gain.

I have a Keeley Modded SD-1, HBE Power Screamer and a BBE Green Screamer...for the money I don't think the BBE can be beat and it's true bypass.

+1 on the BBE Green Screamer!!!

if you had to choose which overdrive would it be? green screamer or ts-9. i have the money for either or any.basically i have a randall mts but want that true recto tone and i'm trying to get it with a grail mod. still fell like i need more of something, :wink: is it a boost that i need or should i get a mesa

I'd never buy a mesa. Don't you think they just sound over processed? The guitarist in my band raves about them cos he thinks they're the best until i took my RM100 to practice and totally destroyed everyone. He also used a tube screamer but its the newer TS9DX turbo and to tell you the truth if your using an amp with a fair bit of gain i couldn't really tell the difference. Apart from the feedback.
I guess the Grail is just one of those modules that either you think sounds good or you don't.

For anyone with a TS9 and handy with a soldering iron, there is a kit on ebay to replicate the Keeley mod+.
I did it and really liked it.

Scott

I'm super happy with the stock Grail. I've been using a Soldano Supercharger GTO.

I'm gonna get a BBE GS and try it this weekend.

Do any of you guys have any experience with the MXR boost or micro amp pedals? I'm curious about these because I'm not looking for any tone adjustment just some clean front-end boost.

Scott

I am using the MXR micro amp in my hard rock outfit right now (RM100 with a clean, brahma, and grail). I use it to push the brahma into the perfect crunch tone for the 80-90's hard rock stuff (I have the gain dimed on this one - and its good for a dirty clean tone) but with the MXR its unreal, and I use the Grail for higher gain stuff - I run the gain on the Grail at about half way or a little over - and I use the MXR for a killer solo boost - it just adds gain and sustain without coloring the original tone. I went through quite a few pedals (OD's, boost etc.) and still ended up with the MXR in the rack. I just picked up two Catalinabread boosters (an old SCP, and a Variboost Pro) so I will also give them a chance, but I still have a feeling I will end up with the MXR - I should note though that its an older one (pre Dunlop - no led, no power plug). I still plan on picking up a new one to see the diference, but I have to say that some of the new ones are really close to the old ones (at least the Distortion +'s I have - one is from 79-80 and the other is about 2 years old - and the only difference is the new one had more gain, with the gain set to about 80% you couldn't tell the difference between the two tone wise).

c2ply said:

I am using the MXR micro amp in my hard rock outfit right now (RM100 with a clean, brahma, and grail). I use it to push the brahma into the perfect crunch tone for the 80-90's hard rock stuff (I have the gain dimed on this one - and its good for a dirty clean tone) but with the MXR its unreal, and I use the Grail for higher gain stuff - I run the gain on the Grail at about half way or a little over - and I use the MXR for a killer solo boost - it just adds gain and sustain without coloring the original tone. I went through quite a few pedals (OD's, boost etc.) and still ended up with the MXR in the rack. I just picked up two Catalinabread boosters (an old SCP, and a Variboost Pro) so I will also give them a chance, but I still have a feeling I will end up with the MXR - I should note though that its an older one (pre Dunlop - no led, no power plug). I still plan on picking up a new one to see the diference, but I have to say that some of the new ones are really close to the old ones (at least the Distortion +'s I have - one is from 79-80 and the other is about 2 years old - and the only difference is the new one had more gain, with the gain set to about 80% you couldn't tell the difference between the two tone wise).

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Sweet! I thought I would get a response like yours, but I just wanted to be sure. Did you happen to my post above concerning TS9's? If you have one, it'd be the way to go.

Thanks,
Scott

in terms of a Rock/Metal mod the GRAIL pretty much stands alone imho... i would like to A/B it with the new KH2 though ....

Maximus, I'm waiting for a custom OD pedal that is all the rave with mesa guy's. I know a ton of mesa guy's that swear by this pedal. It's called "Bloody Murder." This thing is sooooo popular that there is a 1 month waiting list to get one. I have heard nothing but awesome thing's with a variety of amp brand owners, but mainly mesa guy's will not put anything but this pedal in front of their rig's. With that being said, I think i'm the first guy to put it in front of a Randall RM amp. I will let you guy's know how it turn's out.

As for sounding like a Mesa, i'm starting to realize that everyone and their monther uses MESA. Getting a Mesa will make you sound like everyone else. Thank's to and email to Steve at randall, he talked me out of getting one and i'm happier then crap. Like before, i stated I didn't know anyone that has this amp, so i know I wont sound like anyone else. Plus, this is the heaviest thing i've ever played.

i quit boosting my grail it was getting too noisy and since i retubbed and got new speakers it sounds killer and the louder the better is key on this one for sure. the grail i got with the chinese pre amps tubes sounds great at band/gig volume, it just seems to saturate and compress better at louder volumes but ocasionally i use the maxon for lower volume playing just to drive it harder. sounds pretty mesa to me but it stands alone for sure, now if my kh-3 would just come in aready i'd be set :twisted: