Comparing Egnater with Randall.

So I've noticed that most people say this - the Egnater sounds more refined, the Randall more agressive.

Now since I own an Egnater M4 and have owned almost every MTS amp..I can say this is true but it's got me wondering why?

Same settings, same module in the M4 sounds smoother than the module in the Randall RM50B (granted I'm not comparing like with like since I don't have access to a MOD50 but I bet it's the same)

Both amps are even using the same power section - M4 is going in to serial return on RM50B...I'm guessing that's at least one half a 12ax7 extra as a buffer.

Well, I guess I can take a stab at answering this (please excuse the really LONG post) ? as I have owned both at the same time and was able to test both at the same time side by side ? Hope your still digging the M4 (as I know I did). Along with testing many of the Randall mods I was able to test both single and dual channel mods (for example I have the single SL, and SL++ mods, and I had the dual SL and SL2 mods). Much of the difference (at least in the head?s ? RM100 vs MOD100) is the transformer ? and more than likely hand tested and picked components (in both the pre and head?s), which means much tighter tolerances of the parts ? I guess you would say higher quality. The MOD100 used a Heyborer (sp?) transformer and the RM100 uses a very close knock off. I also went so far as to match the tubes that were in the heads (Tung Sol 12AX7?s and a pair of JJ E34L?s with a pair of JJ 6L6GC?s). I also matched the pre tubes (though the M4 only had two ? as it had no effects loop) ? mated with a VHT 2/90/2 with Tung Sol Reissue 6550?s. The major difference seemed to be in the smoother high end (more refined?) of the MOD100 ? as such the Egnater seemed darker (hence less ?aggressive?). The differences also seemed to be in perceived gain (i.e. the dual SL mod) on the A channel was close to the Egnater SL single mod (but the single had more gain) ? and was again a little smoother with the dual. The B channel of the Dual SL had more gain (close to the single SL) but was a bit thicker in the upper mids (though the single SL has a ton of range and is really good) again the difference was in the high end ? but I could get a ?heavier? tone out of the single as compared to the dual ? I guess you would say scooped Marshall tone. Another difference seemed to be that the Egnater wanted its master up higher to get to where they sounded good, where as the Randall sounds better with the mods up higher and the master down lower ? but this only holds true for the Pre?s (I ran the Egnater at between noon and 1 on the master ? and the randall I run between 10 and 11 o?clock). My other guitarist really liked the Egnater sounds ? as he really likes the smooth 80?s style tones (Def Leppard Hysteria type tones) and I am more of an SLO/early Recto/JCM900 type tones (a little more gain ? ?aggressive? or ?crisper? high end ? a little more modern) ? stuff that cuts through. I should also not that prior to now I was in heavier types of bands (Sepultura, Pantera, Antrhax, Testament ? and the lighter side was Skid Row, Motley Crue type hair metal). Again their all great, but I guess it boils down to taste ? smoother, less gain, darker or brighter, more gain, more aggressive. I will never play another amp again I really, really liked the Egnater, but for me I love the Randall ? plus with the ability to have the modules modded (I feel like the Randalls can and sometimes should be modded ? but the Egnaters should be left alone ? as Bruce really knows what he is doing and the tones are great) ? leaves the possibilities limitless with this system.

Sounds about right

Did you get the SL+ ???

Yeah, got the SL+, I was going to shoot you an email, but got tied up and forgot to mention it in my post. I have to say this thing is killer - Pete's work is incredible, and may actually knock the Grail out of my rock rig, its that good and even more versatile.

Thanks for the kind words. In some cases I don't think the mods make the module *better* just different. I'm going to have my RM100 set up to run Egnater duals, and I'll probably tweak them to my taste. Doesn't mean they were bad to begin with, just I like a little more spice here or there, or less salt, etc.

A lot of the Randall modules are pretty cool right out of the box, I just like dialling them in for what I like to hear, and luckily a lot of people agree with me. But some people may like the stock modules... it's always great to have options. That's why on a lot of my mods with switches, I allow the option to go back to stock. Well, other than the upgraded components I put in the signal path, but those sound much better IMHO than the stockers. Again, it's a matter of taste.

Pete

Bruce mentioned that the circuit designs are the same, bu that the main difference in tone results from quality control on the capacitors. He said a tiny variation from spec on a capacitor value can have a huge impact in tone. Coming from China at a greatly reduced cost, it is unrealistic to expect the same quality parts and attention to detail. So that accounts for the modules. Can it be that the caps in the power amp also have an impact? If I recall correctly, a transformer is really just a capacitor anyway, so that might also suggest that the transformer could be the culprit as astutely noted above.

Ok everyone, since I've developed the Randall MTS line from the beginning with Bruce I want to fill everyone in on the differences between the Randall and Egnater models. With the amplifiers themselves, pretty everything is identical other than we use a CMEC transformer and Bruce uses a Heyboer. The specs used to build both transformers are identical and you will notice the size and weight are the same as well. We can honestly use the Heyboer or any other transformer we want, but we did not and do not notice any tone or performance difference at low or high volumes between the 2 transformers.

The tonal differences lie in the different capacitor values that we use to voice our modules specifically for the high gain player. These small capacitor value differences is what everyone hears and feels. That is why the Randall sounds tighter and more aggressive and the Egnater sounds a bit thicker but also a bit looser. Honestly everyone, Bruce uses the same Electronics supplier that we use. Where do you think the new Egnater Tourmaster came and comes from. That's right, the same factory that produces and stuffs many of our PCB boards. We all buy from and use the same part suppliers, Mouser, Digikey, etc... to stuff our circuit boards.

I just wanted to clear this up. Everyone seems to think that softer deeper low end means better build quality and better components. It's real simple, we voice our modules to our player and Bruce voices his modules to his player. I assure you that both are being made using the same high component quality.

I hope everyone finds a tone they like whether it's a Egnater or a Randall module, because we have the whole gammit covered

As I said before"if a killer sounding amp comes from China,does that not make it killer sounding!"

+1 to all above.

I run an RM4 and have owned about 12 different modules over the past 9 months. Two of them were Egnater single channels, the rest Randall. The voicing of the Egnater modules are smoother/darker. The Randall modules are just slightly more aggressive or edgier. After trying out a bunch of them, I have 6 Randall modules now, all modded by Pete, and an Egnater VX. I actually love the VX as a mid gain module. I run it with Tung Sols and dime the gain and it is great for Pearl Jam and Incubus-style tones. The biggest difference is the Egnater and Pete modded stuff have a lot of clarity and individual notes really stand out in chords. All of them are great, it just depends what you as a player are looking for. They pretty much cover us all between the two.

I started out on a Randall RM100, later bought a MOD 100. Still have both, still use both. Each one fills a tonal need for me. They are different, but that's what I like about them. I would be hard pressed to get rid of either one.....I like them too much!