Suggest me some modules! Pt2 (Cleans, Funk, Fusion Leads)

[Skyze]

Hope you guys don't mind my two threads! This is part 2, discussing the cleans. I play a lot of styles of music, and while metal may be most of my gigs, in my spare time it is almost all jazz/funk. So, hopefully I can get something good here, after all this is my main reason for the MTS systems, to get great cleans combined with a great rhythm/lead. Most metal amps are seriously lacking in cleans.

For signal path, I will be using mostly Ash/Alder bodies with Maple neck/fretboard, Duncan or BKP pickups (passive), a Carvin T100 6L6 tube poweramp (maybe a Mesa 20/20 soon), into closeback 1x12 or 2x12 with Eminence Lil'Texas (subject to change if it'll help tone).. pedals for reverb/mod/delays, but dont want to use any overdrives to get my amp tone if possible.

CLEAN #1 - Super clean, No breakup, Glassy warm and smooth

I figure my first slot should be super clean, to the point where theres NO breakup at all, even super loud volume with 100W tube amp. Its going to be hard to explain past that; the only way I guess to put it is I want a nice warm lively clean, rather than a sterile Marshall plexi or Mesa clean.

When adding reverb/chorus/delay, it should sound wonderful, FULL and WARM.

For this module, I'd love if I could find one STOCK, maybe save me some money, since its not asking for too much tonal character outside of being non-sterile, and being not gainy/breakupy. The KH-1 looks like the most reasonable from my initial research, but what do I know.

Roland JC-120 type, enough to do some fingerpicking classical, or chord-melody jazz. Alex Skolnick Trio is my favorite jazz trio, and I spend most of my time transcribing/learning his songs, so this type of clean tone is priority!

Youtube Examples -

Alex Skolnick Trio (watch these if any) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ex2Rf6WQvIY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhNnOeV9Qv4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lx6X6g4W_ho

Marty Friedman - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbhMXcbLJVY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llHYn-jGjt8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmUCjhLkPcs

Some Holdsworth chord-melodies - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6iXQUr6RZg

Animals As Leaders cleans - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvPvQDgwReY&feature=related

Just others like Pet Methany, Wes Montgomery, typical clean jazz playing. Maybe as close to Django as an electric could get me..

Would be beyond great if I could get a nice acoustic-y type tone from the same module, but I wont hold my breath.

CLEAN #2 - Funky Twang, Mid-gain Hendrix types?
Again, not great with describing my tones, especially clean tones. Here, I am looking for something that can be used to get those mid-gain Hendrix type "dirt" tones, along with being clean enough for funky type licks. Im not sure if this falls under the Marshall or Fender type, as it seems most funk guys I know use Fenders, but it sounds kinda like a low-gain Marshall to me. Hmm.

Think Hendrix's "Little Wing"

Might even be cool if I could get this tone from either the other super clean module, or from the last "Lead" type of clean, all I know is Ideally I will be able to get these 3 tones, from only two modules. Thats my goal.

I'll just go into examples with this one, since I dunno how much more to explain it. The Mesa Lonestar has always interested me, specifically to get this type of tone. As I said in my other thread though, the Carvin Legacy II's "boosted" clean (channel 2), is my dream amp for this tone.

Hendrix style - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAFaV1SrOqI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ad2EPO_y0ps

My fav band, TSQUARE & Casiopea -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DjHtEW9LzA&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBahH_6-loI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvyKiYu8elk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPqufDJ90o0

Funk time! the most important of this module -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKZVNrC0QYA
http://youtu.be/sK0ePMkBMzM?t=2m29s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2UmP6C9rcs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-qweYah6Ow

If you didn't listen to the clips, its mainly like Jamiroquai, Incognito, Tower of power, That kinda funky twang tone. Most likely a Fender Deluxe or twin??

CLEAN #3 - The Fusion, Smooth hi-gain but clean solo tone.
This one is the hardest tone to get out of ANYTHING in my experience, especially with modellers. This is why I am hoping these modules can help me out, but Its going to be hard. From what I've read, a lot of these fusion tones are usually some sort of boutique amp such as a Cornford, or Custom Audio (Suhr), with a very transparent boost such as the Maxon or BB Preamp infront.

Some of the players I relate to this tone, to give a small example, Greg Howe, Mike Stern, Allan Holdsworth, Frank Gambale, Guthrie Govan, maybe Santana slightly, can go on forever.

Examples of some of my favorites of it

Greg Howe (My fusion idol) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQ6ZjXr21hI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7iB3zQIVRI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qJ_3R_O4I4&feature=related

Really, Greg Howe's tone is the best example I can give.. this tone is really diverse and hard to describe, but I think you all can get the idea of what im going for with Greg Howe's tone. It has a lot of gain, but its not "metal", and it cuts thru the mix great, while maintaining its smooth warm singing nature.

Anyways, again, I'd love any suggestions based on the info I provided here.. Im kinda running out of steam describing what I want, so hopefully its enough that someone can fill in the blanks for me.

Thanks!

 

[crankyrayhanky]

I've seen KH1s go cheap in the classifieds- that would be a great stock buy for clean tones

 

[sepherus]

I'd say look into the KH1 for that super clean. It is a it brighter than the stock clean, but I think it has more character to it so I like it more. I think you'd dig it.

For that second sound and some of the 3rd I'd look into a Deluxe. My Egnater DLX definitely gets pretty close to that sound Greg is getting with the Cornford, especially when I boost it. The EQ on it is pre gain stages though, so it will effect your gain level also. It is that fender sound, with more mids and breakup when you want it. It sounds great with a nice sweet sounding pickup. Mine really likes my LP with a '59 in the bridge, the PAF Pro in the neck of my LTD AX, and my 2 sevens with BKPs: nailbombs in a korina 27" Sherman 7, and ceramic Warpig bridge, normal WP neck in an Ibby 7420. The Evo in the Ax is ok with it too, but not as nice. However it isn't a fan of my actives at all. Duncan Livewire metal, and a 707. I take that back I have a Livewire Classic in the neck of the Dinky with the LW Met in the bridge and it loves that too, but again, it's a really sweet pickup.

3rd sound in the higher gain regions your previously mentioned lead module you're looking for in the high gain thread seems to fill that with the gain knob rolled back a bit.

 

[JKD]

I'd look into a LoneClean (Salvation)..which has 3 gain modes..killeer module.


Or if you want something cheaper, look for a Vox type module....the SuperV is easily capable of a chimy clean and Hendrix.

 

[davetheslave]

The LoneClean is awesome but I never had any luck getting a good sound out of it with an overdrive pedal in front of it but I am a slacker when it comes to tweaking around with pedals too much.
I have found a stock Blackface with all the caps upgraded to "orange drops" to be my main clean at the moment.I am getting some awesome spankiness for country and joy fender warmth for that "Stratty neck and middle pickup" kind of tone and it loves my WAmpler Paisley pedal and the BB Preamp in front.

 

[Skyze]

Quick questions; Can the Egnater DLX (singlechannel) be modded? Like when looking at Salvation's compatibility list, the egnater ones aren't listed on there.

http://salvationmods.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=28&Itemid=12

Does it basically act the same as a randall deluxe? I dont know if I'll really mod it with salvation, but wondering if it'll at least be moddable by others (assuming I dont dig it)


On the flip side, does the KH-1 take pedals well? Potentially, could I use a distortion box into the KH-1 until I buy my high-gain modules? Or would that sound like garbage?

 

[sepherus]

The egnater singles are pretty much the same, but with better stock components. A little less gain than the Randalls, but a bit thicker fuller sound. Some have an extra voicing switch also, similar to the 1086.

 

[Shinozoku]

Sounds like a KH-1 and Loneclean to me. Might check out the Jaded Faith Voxless too.

 

[crankyrayhanky]

On the flip side, does the KH-1 take pedals well? Potentially, could I use a distortion box into the KH-1 until I buy my high-gain modules? Or would that sound like garbage?

Inadequate hi gain tone IMO

 

[Skyze]

so confused on the clean modules.. doesnt look like theres much options in the modding world, outside of Vox or Lonestar ones -_-

if I did get a KH-1, can it be made to breakup if I crank the gain, or is it very clean straight to the end?

Im also kinda interested in these cleaner marshall modules, like the JTM.. if it could do the hendrix type tone, along with classic marshall gain rhythm.. tempting. But, ideally one of my two hi-gain modules will cover that classic marshall gain rhythm (XTC, praying!) then it wouldnt be needed, and I should stick with the fender style.

 

[Skyze]

Ok then.. I guess my question is; what kinda module can get me THESE tones both in one. Any stock modules??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DjHtEW9LzA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ex2Rf6WQvIY

 

[BigBrewtus]

Ok then.. I guess my question is; what kinda module can get me THESE tones both in one. Any stock modules??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DjHtEW9LzA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ex2Rf6WQvIY

My stock Blackface can do both of those songs.

 

[Skyze]

do you mean with lots of effects, or could it be done with nothing more but a tad of reverb?

is there any mods that has reverb/delay built in to get something like that sound without effects? I mean custom mod, obviously. Id pay good money for that, i hate effects on my tones unless absolutely necessary =[

 

[BigBrewtus]

do you mean with lots of effects, or could it be done with nothing more but a tad of reverb?

is there any mods that has reverb/delay built in to get something like that sound without effects? I mean custom mod, obviously. Id pay good money for that, i hate effects on my tones unless absolutely necessary =[

I hear a bit of chorus there. Never seen and modded modules with effects. Maybe you just need a Line 6 or something. :lol: Thought we were discussing AMP tone on this thread? Hope you find what you are looking for. GL

 

[Skyze]

all modelling is a pain in the *** for me, which is why i'd LOVE to get a module that bypasses having to put up with that garbage. even the Axe-FX didnt impress me at all.

my ideal setup is basically amp, maybe a clear boost overdrive, a SUPERSIMPLE delay/reverb/mod unit, a wah/volume pedal and thats it ideally.

 

[Skyze]

Is there any modules that can work decently for acoustics? or Piezo on electric guitars??

 

[Daryl]

all modelling is a pain in the *** for me, which is why i'd LOVE to get a module that bypasses having to put up with that garbage. even the Axe-FX didnt impress me at all.

my ideal setup is basically amp, maybe a clear boost overdrive, a SUPERSIMPLE delay/reverb/mod unit, a wah/volume pedal and thats it ideally.

Just get the Blackface and try it out. It will get you some good tone and when you get it modded you will know exactly what customizations if any you want. I used a stock Blackface for years and it gets it done. If you use an OD and compression in front of the amp input, you can squeeze a ton of tones out of this sucker. There's no safer place to jump into MTS than with the Blackface. IMHO.
I've used an RM100 faithfully since '05. You could just use a Blackface with a couple of pedals in front and get everything you would need for an average live set. Sounds great with a distortion pedal in front too. Bigbrewtus has one in the classies right now.

 

[Skyze]

well I have a chance at a Egnater single channel Deluxe for a great price, and much easier to get (included with the RM4).. so Im not sure if I should get that or wait for a KH-1 to show up. hmm

Why blackface over the Deluxe? I know the blackface doesnt break up as easily, but anything else?

wouldn't a Egnater Deluxe sound better than a stock Randall blackface?

 

[Daryl]

well I have a chance at a Egnater single channel Deluxe for a great price, and much easier to get (included with the RM4).. so Im not sure if I should get that or wait for a KH-1 to show up. hmm

Why blackface over the Deluxe? I know the blackface doesnt break up as easily, but anything else?

wouldn't a Egnater Deluxe sound better than a stock Randall blackface?

Well Skyze, there is a lot of hub-bub about the Egnater modules being better, but realistically they use many of the exact same parts. There is a thread about that on the forum. http://mtsforum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?t=6689
"from Doug himself:

Ok everyone, since I've developed the Randall MTS line from the beginning with Bruce I want to fill everyone in on the differences between the Randall and Egnater models. With the amplifiers themselves, pretty everything is identical other than we use a CMEC transformer and Bruce uses a Heyboer. The specs used to build both transformers are identical and you will notice the size and weight are the same as well. We can honestly use the Heyboer or any other transformer we want, but we did not and do not notice any tone or performance difference at low or high volumes between the 2 transformers.

The tonal differences lie in the different capacitor values that we use to voice our modules specifically for the high gain player. These small capacitor value differences is what everyone hears and feels. That is why the Randall sounds tighter and more aggressive and the Egnater sounds a bit thicker but also a bit looser. Honestly everyone, Bruce uses the same Electronics supplier that we use. Where do you think the new Egnater Tourmaster came and comes from. That's right, the same factory that produces and stuffs many of our PCB boards. We all buy from and use the same part suppliers, Mouser, Digikey, etc... to stuff our circuit boards."

Then there is the issue of overall build quality. The Egnater ones are most likely subject to more thorough quality control. As far as Blackface vs. Deluxe. From what you described you are looking for more of a Blackface tone. The Deluxe is a little hotter a little more crisp and country music to my ear. I would get it and flip it if you don't like it.
Let's face it. You are a tone hunter like the rest of us. There's no substitute for raw, hands on experience.