black album tone

[muzapstar]

Does anyone know how to get the Metallica Black Album tone? I've been able to get it with digital amps and tuning them just right running through my marshall jcm 800 but so far with my mts, I can't get the tone.
I want to use the mts cuz it's all tube but it doesn't give that tone.
The black album had really deep thunderous guitar that the mts rm100 doesn't do. the rm-100 sounds good down to about the 200hz range, then it seems to cut off somewhere below that, when the black album's guitars had their thunder at the 70-111hz range!

I've tried running 2 different eq pedals in front and in the loop but it doesn't sound right. I have all the high gain modules but the ones that sound deep (the 1086/treadplate etc) don't have enough distortion. The ultras sound fine distortion wise but the low end thunder isn't there. I've tried different cabs etc and don't know what to do to get that digital tight deep low end I get when I tune the Big bottom setting on my pod xt pro with 100hz focus in the eq. - that's Metallica black album there. Frustrating.

Also, i've tried an original tube screamer as well as a zw pedal but those distortions just don't sound right.

 

[crankyrayhanky]

Have you tried the KH3? Sounds like Sandman to me

 

[JKD]

Maybe get a 1086 / Recto modded for more gain?

Did you consider changing speakers?

 

[riff man]

WELL ...to be honest IMO you need 2 amps running at the same time to get that black album mojo!!!
Mark III c+ for the low end grind( some say the modern and ultra's are close to the mark series mesa amps)
and a modded marshall super lead ??? for the high mid and highs attack
blend these together and you have Black album sound ..oh yeah Vintage 30's are James fav.....
don't forget to add

on that note you can nail the LOAD's album guitar sound with a GRAIL ...
( not a big fan off the albums but the guitar tone was about their sickest mordern tone imo)

if you do nail it .. please report back

 

[muzapstar]

i've tried all high gain mods (kh3, kh2, 1086, grail, ultra, treadplate, xtc, ultra xl, mr scary are just some of the ones I own). How do you mod for higher gain? That might be the ticket.

I had one tube amp that nailed "the" sound - A mesa dual rec. I got it off Ebay and had an eargasm when I played it. I loved it every minute of playing - the key - tons of USABLE GAIN. the problem is that I blew it out plugging into a friends crappy speaker and when I took it to get fixed, it came back sounding crappy. I told the guy it wasn't right and he said it was just the speaker I was playing through. When I got it home, it was bad still. Called the tech and he assured me it was fine. I knew better.

I took it to guitar center to compare to a new one and it sounded the same. I was devastated. I couldn't believe it. People were raving about the rectos and they were this cold and stiff? I went through all the way to philly (3 hours) just to be sure and sure enough, it sounded just as a stock recto should. So, I figured out that it had to have been a special amp in some way. I dont know what he would have replaced to change the sound that much (i just plugged into a speaker cabinet that was wired all funny) But Since then, i've been chasing that sound. It made the amp sound like it had tons of distortion, but it was really the same amount but just more "usable" for lack of a better term. The amp also had more harmonic content and a warm and deep bottom end. That's what I need and I have no idea how to find it. I bought the MTS thinking with all the amp combos that one would be like it but they are all kind of cold and stiff. The 1086 has one ingredient of the sound and the ultra/xl another, but even if you put them both together, they wouldn't have the usable gain this dual rectifier had. I'm so sad. It's all I think about.

 

[JKD]

My first Dual Recto was like that, I can't believe people have problems getting useable/good tones out of 'em and once I got an SD-1..man, it was heaven.

I've had 3 real 2ch dual rectos and they all sounded different, even with the same tubes. (and also a TOV, ROV and Roadking...lol)

Still suprised you can't get there with a Grail and an overdrive pedal.

 

[muzapstar]

i've tried all high gain mods (kh3, kh2, 1086, grail, ultra, treadplate, xtc, ultra xl, mr scary are just some of the ones I own). How do you mod for higher gain? That might be the ticket.

I had one tube amp that nailed "the" sound - A mesa dual rec. I got it off Ebay and had an eargasm when I played it. I loved it every minute of playing - the key - tons of USABLE GAIN. the problem is that I blew it out plugging into a friends crappy speaker and when I took it to get fixed, it came back sounding crappy. I told the guy it wasn't right and he said it was just the speaker I was playing through. When I got it home, it was bad still. Called the tech and he assured me it was fine. I knew better.

I took it to guitar center to compare to a new one and it sounded the same. I was devastated. I couldn't believe it. People were raving about the rectos and they were this cold and stiff? I went through all the way to philly (3 hours) just to be sure and sure enough, it sounded just as a stock recto should. So, I figured out that it had to have been a special amp in some way. I dont know what he would have replaced to change the sound that much (i just plugged into a speaker cabinet that was wired all funny) But Since then, i've been chasing that sound. It made the amp sound like it had tons of distortion, but it was really the same amount but just more "usable" for lack of a better term. The amp also had more harmonic content and a warm and deep bottom end. That's what I need and I have no idea how to find it. I bought the MTS thinking with all the amp combos that one would be like it but they are all kind of cold and stiff. The 1086 has one ingredient of the sound and the ultra/xl another, but even if you put them both together, they wouldn't have the usable gain this dual rectifier had. I'm so sad. It's all I think about.

 

[tonymustang302]

I have early 2 channel dual rec for sale?mm :lol:

I'm not sure what you're looking for. I think the Randall has way more then enough gain than you are talking bout.

Talk to pete (oskrat) so he can mod your module. I've heard way too many good reviews about them.

I'm sure he will get you in the are of tone you want.

 

[Mailman1971]

I had the KH3 and was able to dial in the Black album tone pretty much dead on. It wasnt the "normal" settings that I usually use. I had to basically not look at where the knobs were set at and dial in with my ears. Came 99% of that "Black album" tone. Play with the presence and depth too.

 

[riff man]

Black album tone would be really hard to dial in ... if you really want to get that tone . you'd have to listen to LIVE metallica tracks from just after that album was released... alot of the tone on that album came from MIC positioning.. they used Phase cancellations to mold the tone on that album ...
in some rights ..i bet James cannot even get that tone ...
everyone will get close maybe 90% there ...

i guess it's the fun of chasing your favorite tone down !!! :twisted:

the KH's mods are 50% there right off the hop!!!
if randall would get a JH mod we would get the other 50%

 

[okstrat]

Muzap, you sent me a few emails on this, thought I'd just reply here as those emails are on my home PC and I'm at work. Don't tell my boss.

If you give me goals like "more gain" or "less gain" or "more mids" or "more bass" etc I can do that. To chase a certain album tone with a module is going to take more time than I really want to invest and if I charged fairly for my time, would be a lot more $ than you would want to invest either. Plus to really nail it I'd have to use the same speaker cabs, pickups, guitar, etc...

One of the KH modules would probably be a good start, I do remember reading an article when the black album came out about mic positioning as posted earlier in this thread, and also about them using a combination of amps.

Getting a studio tone on a module or any modded amp is a pain in the ***. I had trouble enough with my Van Halen mods, and the brown module was already close as is, just needed a few tweaks. PLUS the VH I and II tones were one amp, and that was long enough ago that they didn't layer several guitars and do all the studio chicanery they can do now.

Pete

 

[jsaliba]

If you really must nail the black album tone, you need a Mesa/Boogie Mark II C+. This is the exact amp used on the album. On the album, Hetfield ran through the preamp of the Mark II and then used the power amp of a JCM-800 into cabinets with vintage 30's. Take a look at youtube and look for videos of the Mark II. They're all people looking for the metallica tone. Some of them are horrible, but some are VERY close.

 

[goldwing68nv]

actually,i have great luck acheiving that "Black" album tone with a RECTO module,modded with a .0022uF C3 cap,gain set at 12 o'clock,then boosted with an o/d pedal(level=max,gain=min)...does "AJFA" tone just as well,imo...my lead tones are smooth & thick,yet rhythm tones are fat,tight & punchy!!! 8)

 

[JKD]

actually,i have great luck acheiving that "Black" album tone with a RECTO module,modded with a .0022uF C3 cap,gain set at 12 o'clock,then boosted with an o/d pedal(level=max,gain=min)...does "AJFA" tone just as well,imo...my lead tones are smooth & thick,yet rhythm tones are fat,tight & punchy!!! 8)

6L6s ?

(I agree by the way....it's close enough in the room for sure.)

 

[goldwing68nv]

good question,Steve...actually,i run EH el34's in my RM50 head,but i'll have to try out 6L6's,in the amp,with the RECTO module "set-up",as i mentioned.could be a better fit,maybe? i do,however,play through a std-sized MESA 4x12 cab loaded w/v30's... :wink: ...........funny,i've actually come to like the RECTO module,set-up my way,even better than the GRAIL module!!! :shock: who knew??? ...lol!

 

[needtopractice]

It might be good to remember that Tallica sometimes SEVERAL mics at once to manipulate their sound coming out of the cabs to get the toen we hear on the album. FWIW...

Does anyone know how to get the Metallica Black Album tone? I've been able to get it with digital amps and tuning them just right running through my marshall jcm 800 but so far with my mts, I can't get the tone.
I want to use the mts cuz it's all tube but it doesn't give that tone.
The black album had really deep thunderous guitar that the mts rm100 doesn't do. the rm-100 sounds good down to about the 200hz range, then it seems to cut off somewhere below that, when the black album's guitars had their thunder at the 70-111hz range!

I've tried running 2 different eq pedals in front and in the loop but it doesn't sound right. I have all the high gain modules but the ones that sound deep (the 1086/treadplate etc) don't have enough distortion. The ultras sound fine distortion wise but the low end thunder isn't there. I've tried different cabs etc and don't know what to do to get that digital tight deep low end I get when I tune the Big bottom setting on my pod xt pro with 100hz focus in the eq. - that's Metallica black album there. Frustrating.

Also, i've tried an original tube screamer as well as a zw pedal but those distortions just don't sound right.

 

[muzapstar]

yeah, they also said you basically need a room that amplifies a certain frequency. I figured pete could do it but it looks like he isn't going to work with me anyway.