Favorite Hiwatt Style Module

[nym1985]

Since apparently the other current Hiwatt style mod thread is becoming an off topic blood bath I have decided to just post a new thread in the hopes of keeping a relevant discussion about gear.

So what is everyones favorite Hiwatt style mod?

When I think of great Hiwatt tone I mainly think of Pete Townshend (shows like Isle of Wight, Live at Leeds, Live at Hull, etc in arguably the Who's heyday).

My favorite Hiwatt head was from 1970 and was 100 watts it was loaded with a set of Phillips 6CA7 power tubes and Mullard 12AX7s.

The cabinet had the original ceramic Fanes.

That amp just had unmistakable character. The cleans were Fender-esque but on steroids big but sparkly and had some character to them (in no way sterile) and as you turned up the gain you had useable and inspiring tone the whole way up seemed like the amp just had headroom for days. It's nice getting an overdrive that doesn't over saturate and over compress.

So what mod should I go with if I'm trying to recreate this Townshend-esque tone.

I'm not as worried about the module being able to handle the Gilmour tones and other Hiwatt tones I'm into chasing. I would just really love to be able to cop a great Live at Leeds style tone when playing my lollar p90 loaded sg.

If I'm running a pair of KT77 power tubes and Celestion Creamback speakers will I be able to approach this tonal territory or would i need a pair of Fanes/Fane clones and 6CA7 power tubes?

 

[djd100]

IMO the speakers would be the biggest contributors (vs power tubes). Live Townsend used Hiwatt ceramic Fanes at first, and later JBL's after the Fanes blew up repeatedly (this during Quadrophenia era).

Not positive about the speakers during Live at Leeds, likely Fanes I'd guess?

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

I was also going to agree that the speakers would be huge as well as the pickups and making the amp work with a strong picking hand. Really lay into those strings to make the chords pop out vs increasing the gain. Not sure the creambacks or G12-65's would have the bite you'd want for that. I know i found the g12-65 that came with my 800 combo to be a tad too smooth for me. I'd also say go for 6CA7's as I find the top and bottom end to come out more over the EL34's which concentrate in the mids and sometimes don't have as nice highs.

 

[nym1985]

I haven't purchased the creambacks yet so perhaps I should order a pair of the weber ceramic axis speakers (clones of the ceramic fanes)

another option would be purchasing a pair of the Reeves/Eminence Vintage Purples

I think the fane style speakers would work well with the fendery, voxy, and marshally style modules though so I probably wouldn't be losing out.

Has anyone compared the JF to the salvo mod? Is one particularly better than another?

 

[dcg8]

I believe the Salvation C-Watt is more along the Zeppelin / Who tones you are searching for. Where as the Salvation H-Watt & the Jaded Faith HW103 are modeled more in the "Gilmouresque" tones, but I could also be completely wrong :roll:
-Dan

 

[nym1985]

cool that is helpful for me

Now I just have to decide what speakers and tubes to put in my combo it's tough because I think the Celestion Creamback would work for all the modules I have now but I know that real Hiwatt amps don't get along as well with Celestions

and since fanes and their clones are kind of a rarity in the market it's tough to find them to try them out and it's also tough to find people that have a lot of experience with them.

 

[djd100]

Nothing wrong with vintage Hiwatts into Greenback style Celestions in my book, puts the Hiwatt into a little more Marshall like vibe which can be cool (I use that sound a lot), though of course it's not factory correct etc.

cool that is helpful for me

Now I just have to decide what speakers and tubes to put in my combo it's tough because I think the Celestion Creamback would work for all the modules I have now but I know that real Hiwatt amps don't get along as well with Celestions

and since fanes and their clones are kind of a rarity in the market it's tough to find them to try them out and it's also tough to find people that have a lot of experience with them.

 

[dcg8]

I'd recommend looking into WGS Speakers.... The phone # is on their web site and if you call, they're super friendly and helpful when it comes to choosing the correct model from their line. Home grown speakers from right here in the USA, at a fraction of the price of the big name brands.

 

[nym1985]

well I suppose I could always blend a greenback style and a fane style speaker together and dual mike it for live/studio work

though I'd probably have to find sensitivity ratings and such for the speakers as I get the feeling that the Fane style speakers are usually much more sensitive than the Celestion styles and a difference greater than 3 dB will pretty much drown the other speaker out

 

[nym1985]

Nothing wrong with vintage Hiwatts into Greenback style Celestions in my book, puts the Hiwatt into a little more Marshall like vibe which can be cool (I use that sound a lot), though of course it's not factory correct etc.

cool that is helpful for me

Now I just have to decide what speakers and tubes to put in my combo it's tough because I think the Celestion Creamback would work for all the modules I have now but I know that real Hiwatt amps don't get along as well with Celestions

and since fanes and their clones are kind of a rarity in the market it's tough to find them to try them out and it's also tough to find people that have a lot of experience with them.

that is a very good point to make and what a lot of people don't realize is that a lot of the early Hiwatt/Sound City amps had either Celestions or Fanes it just kinda depended upon what was laying around. But it seems that the sought after Hiwatt/Sound City cabs had the Fanes in them and that was more of that sound whereas the Celestions typically get labelled as the Marshall sound.

ahh decisions decisions

 

[blacksun]

As a kid I was fortunate to become very familiar with a vintage H-watt, I think it is the tone I know best. Even though I tend gravitate towards other amps/mods nowadays I can tell you the H-watt is a very accurate mod, spot on IMO, it even captures the same dynamics, responce.

IMO Antonin ie Salvation does very impressive work!! Even though I realise the mts has some mod design limitations I always expect every mod I order to be spot on, not a 70-80% ballparkish thing. Anthony has never let me down so far. My two cents...

 

[nym1985]

lol yeah I was never questioning them in fact I checked out JF after first discovering Salvation mods.

There are quite a few cool looking mods I have my eye on from Salvo.
Supra Bold
Mandarine Stoner AD
Graphic OR
H Watt
C Watt
Voxy Face
Loneclean
Twinface
Matchvox
Baseman
Duoplex
and those are just the ones I remembered being in my alley of preferred tones (I like clean to moderate crunch that has vibe mojo character etc to it, I don't really get into super aggressive tones much)

I think right now aside from deciding on modders and the mods of theirs I want to try.

I need to come to a firm decision on how I want to tube this beast (at least power tube type) and the speakers I want to invest in (I'm not a fan of the Celestion T75s).

And right now I am debating between 6CA7 and KT77 tubes. I know from experience and taste that I want something that falls between 6L6 and EL34 territory.
Speakers in debate Reeves Vintage Purple (which is made by Eminence and is considered by many to be THE fane clone), Celestion Creamback, Weber Blue Dog/Silver Bell combo, Weber Legacy series, Weber Fane clones (axis or thames most likely though crescendos are cool). And while I know a lot about speakers it's still a new amp for me in my setup and it's tough to say which speakers will handle the most tasks well. It'd be a shame to invest a few hundred dollars on a set of speakers that sounds amazing with one or two of my modules and then so-so to terrible with others. All I know is I want something in the british camp (celestion/fane etc) vs the american camp (oxford/jensen etc).

 

[djd100]

Of interest to some is the fact that the US and UK/EU had different specs often as well.

Examples include vintage Marshalls with 6550's here, EL34's over there, vintage Orange cabs with Fanes over there but Eminence here (cabs were shipped from the UK without speakers to save freight charges).

Many bands of the era kept equipment on both sides of the pond or rented etc, so what you might've seen/heard live might not be what you would've expected LOL!

Nothing wrong with vintage Hiwatts into Greenback style Celestions in my book, puts the Hiwatt into a little more Marshall like vibe which can be cool (I use that sound a lot), though of course it's not factory correct etc.

cool that is helpful for me

Now I just have to decide what speakers and tubes to put in my combo it's tough because I think the Celestion Creamback would work for all the modules I have now but I know that real Hiwatt amps don't get along as well with Celestions

and since fanes and their clones are kind of a rarity in the market it's tough to find them to try them out and it's also tough to find people that have a lot of experience with them.

that is a very good point to make and what a lot of people don't realize is that a lot of the early Hiwatt/Sound City amps had either Celestions or Fanes it just kinda depended upon what was laying around. But it seems that the sought after Hiwatt/Sound City cabs had the Fanes in them and that was more of that sound whereas the Celestions typically get labelled as the Marshall sound.

ahh decisions decisions

 

[nym1985]

Of interest to some is the fact that the US and UK/EU had different specs often as well.

Examples include vintage Marshalls with 6550's here, EL34's over there, vintage Orange cabs with Fanes over there but Eminence here (cabs were shipped from the UK without speakers to save freight charges).

Many bands of the era kept equipment on both sides of the pond or rented etc, so what you might've seen/heard live might not be what you would've expected LOL!

Nothing wrong with vintage Hiwatts into Greenback style Celestions in my book, puts the Hiwatt into a little more Marshall like vibe which can be cool (I use that sound a lot), though of course it's not factory correct etc.

cool that is helpful for me

Now I just have to decide what speakers and tubes to put in my combo it's tough because I think the Celestion Creamback would work for all the modules I have now but I know that real Hiwatt amps don't get along as well with Celestions

and since fanes and their clones are kind of a rarity in the market it's tough to find them to try them out and it's also tough to find people that have a lot of experience with them.

that is a very good point to make and what a lot of people don't realize is that a lot of the early Hiwatt/Sound City amps had either Celestions or Fanes it just kinda depended upon what was laying around. But it seems that the sought after Hiwatt/Sound City cabs had the Fanes in them and that was more of that sound whereas the Celestions typically get labelled as the Marshall sound.

ahh decisions decisions

yes and that is something else to consider too

Before the age of technology/logistics it was very much a US version and UK version.

so I guess you can see my dilemna for deciding what I want

 

[Mattfig]

I just made my Hi-Watt decision and went with Salvation's C-Watt ... Cleans and means all in one...There's a demo on http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GAd6euDEnM&feature=youtu.be ...

 

[dcg8]

I also went with the C-Watt after Anthony recommended it over the H-Watt.

 

[Mattfig]

I also went with the C-Watt after Anthony recommended it over the H-Watt.

The C-Watt looks very versatile....Crystal cleans to means all in a single channel format...Who'd have thought it???

 

[nym1985]

that's what made a lot of those old hiwatts so desirable they just had an amazing range of tones and all of them were useful and good

I cannot wait to hear about your opinions on the C Watt mod Fig.

 

[joey_truelove]

well I suppose I could always blend a greenback style and a fane style speaker together and dual mike it for live/studio work

though I'd probably have to find sensitivity ratings and such for the speakers as I get the feeling that the Fane style speakers are usually much more sensitive than the Celestion styles and a difference greater than 3 dB will pretty much drown the other speaker out

That is true, but that didn't stop Dave Gilmour from running a combo of G12Ms with his high anisotropic Crescendos e.g. during the Pulse concerts. And the G12Ms do lend a certain thickening effect to his otherwise clangy-honky, metal domed speakers.

The I know cases were even G12H30s haven't quite been able to do what a Hiwatt amp asked of them and thus started to make some odd ghost noises.

Since we're discussing Celestions vs. Fanes: Celestion did have a head-start on Fane, and Fane was early on known as a budget brand of speakers. Well, that's before they invented the fibre glass VC, and in a blink they were leaps and bounds ahead in terms of power capacity and rigidity. Some 15" Marshalls came with Fanes and Laney's take on Marshall JMPs had Fanes too (as used by Tony Iomi of Black Sabbath, for instance).

 

[Mattfig]

Guys, there is more C-Watt coming and I'll go through whichever cab sims the Torpedo has....And that's a lot...They all seem very accurate....Let me know....Please...