Help Deciding on Preamp Tubes...

[JKMV12]

Hey,

I thought i would've already had the preamp tubes by now, but i've been broke for quite a while (i have no job, can't get one, and have no source of income). I may be selling a Clean module soon (if the buyer ever responds!), and with that i will have enough for some new preamp tubes for my RM80. I'm decided with the PI and V1 in the amp, but i'm not sure what would be best in the modules. Here is what i'm currently looking at:

Amp:
PI: JAN Phillips 5751
V1: Tung-Sol 12AX7

1087:
V1: Tung-Sol 12AX7
V2: Penta Labs 7025F, Ruby 12AX7AC5 HG+, Penta labs 12AX7, or Penta Labs 12AX7M(mullard reissue)

Blackface:
V1: JAN Phillips 5751
V2: JAN Phillips 12AT7WC or Mullard 12AT7 (if i even have the money)

Ultra Lead (maybe...if i have the money):
V1: Tung-Sol 12AX7
V2: Penta Labs 7025F, Ruby 12AX7AC5 HG+, Penta labs 12AX7, or Penta Labs 12AX7M(mullard reissue)

Alright now for the questions:

1) For the V2 in the UL and 1087, what would be the best choice for each??
2) For the V2 in the BF, what would be the better choice?
3) What would be the best order for each module?? (should i switch them to get better results?)

I've been having some troubles lately with the 1087; It seems to lose some gain sometimes and feedback badly even with the ISP on. Harmonics used to come out pretty well, but now just kind of fade away or go directly into unwanted feedback. It has been sounding really thin and weak. Palm mutes used to be really thick and full, but now sound kind of weak and brittle. It also has lost a bit of clarity. The setup has remained the same, but it just sounds a bit weaker. I did raise the bias a while back, but only by a few mV. From 20 to about 22. When i did that, it sounded great, but now it is not as good as it once was. So less clarity...less gain...kind of hollow sounding. Any ideas? Here are my settings:

Gain: 3 o'clock to max
Bass: 1-2 o'clock
Mid: 2-3 o'clock
Treble: 4-5 o'clock
Level: 10-12 o'clock

Mid Switch to the right
Gain Boost to the right (higher)
Push/Pull gain knob pushed in

Master: 10-12 o'clock
Density: 10-12 o'clock
Presence: 10-12 o'clock

I'm also having trouble with sustain, esp. on high notes. For example... I've been trying to learn "Spirits of the Future Sun" by Soilwork and the opening bends just fade away after a second or two. Nothing on the higher frets stays for more than a couple seconds... and if it does it goes directly into unwanted feedback. This hold true for pretty much any volume level. Could it be the gain levels? Thoughts?

I highly doubt it is the power tubes, but who knows..maybe it is. I haven't changed the preamp tubes since i got it in July (and it was used, so idk when the last change was, if there ever was one). I changed the power tubes right away to JJ 6V6's. They should be good...i haven't heard anything to persuade me otherwise. Nothing microphonic (unless the feedback counts). Maybe i should check the bias...i'll do that tomorrow. Any other ideas?

Guitar: Jackson KVX10 tuned to B on 12 gauge strings with EMG 81/60 (81 with 1087 and 60 with BF)
Pedals: ISP Decimator at -30 db's
Cables: one Hosa, one Livewire (i think the Hosa might be part of the problem).

Another quick thing that is kind of unrelated. The G string is/has been acting kind of weird. It's intonation with respect to the B string is a bit off too. The whole guitar is perfectly tuned and intonated, but when i compare the 4th fret G string to the open B string, the G string is always sharper...about 20 cents over. All the other strings are fine. I tried changing the strings, but that didn't work. I'm thinking it might be a neck issue. I'm going to have to change the strings again soon, so i'm going to do a complete setup and fretboard cleaning. Any suggestions to solve these two problems?

Thanks, John.

 

[harsh]

Hey man. First off, sorry to hear about the job situation. I've been there so I know how much it sucks. Good luck.

About the valves in your high gain stuff. If it's for rythm based stuff (which 'm guessing the 1086 is for), my vote actually goes for the Electro Harmonix 12AX7 in the V2. This has a lot of gain and makes the tone somehow more "in your face". Of course, with gain comes noise, so I usually use a Tung Sol/Tung Sol Gold 12AX7 in V1 which gives it warmth and keeps the noise down.

In the Ultra Lead, I'd go with a Tung Sol in V1 and a Shuguang 9th Gen in V2. The Shuguang has the most gain among all the valves I've used, and will give you nice harmonics and sustain (assuming the UL is your main Lead tone). I do find it a bit sharp sounding, so I dont use it for rythm.

As for the guitar, how are you tuned? And how are you checking the intonation? If it's a regular fretted guitar, and you down tune aggressively, it might cause problems because the fretboard would be set up to intonate perfectly at standard tuning. They say a Baritone guitar is the way to go for down-tuned stuff, although I didnt go down that route.

I tune to a Drop-C and a couple of my guitars dont respond well to it (even if intonation is perfect), while they sound good at standard tuning. Take it down to a pro to set up and see what they say.

Thats just my 2 cents. Hope you find this useful.

 

[harsh]

Ah, I just realised you tune down to B. I'm guessing my assumption is correct. Check the intonation again, and if it doesnt help, take it for a pro setup.

 

[coolblues309]

This is my first post here but I have been dealing with Amps, guitars etc for 20 years. What power tubes are you using? 22MV sounds really cold. Most of the valves bias between 28-40MV. Definately could lead to the sustain issues, etc.

 

[JKMV12]

This is my first post here but I have been dealing with Amps, guitars etc for 20 years. What power tubes are you using? 22MV sounds really cold. Most of the valves bias between 28-40MV. Definately could lead to the sustain issues, etc.

I'm using JJ 6V6's. They run at 25W...so 22 mV is within the recommended range. But your right, any other tube like a 6L6 or El34 would be in that range.

 

[coolblues309]

This is my first post here but I have been dealing with Amps, guitars etc for 20 years. What power tubes are you using? 22MV sounds really cold. Most of the valves bias between 28-40MV. Definately could lead to the sustain issues, etc.

I'm using JJ 6V6's. They run at 25W...so 22 mV is within the recommended range. But your right, any other tube like a 6L6 or El34 would be in that range.

Forgot about those 6v6s; I hear they work pretty well. I am running some KT88s right now and they sound huge!

 

[JKMV12]

Hey man. First off, sorry to hear about the job situation. I've been there so I know how much it sucks. Good luck.

About the valves in your high gain stuff. If it's for rythm based stuff (which 'm guessing the 1086 is for), my vote actually goes for the Electro Harmonix 12AX7 in the V2. This has a lot of gain and makes the tone somehow more "in your face". Of course, with gain comes noise, so I usually use a Tung Sol/Tung Sol Gold 12AX7 in V1 which gives it warmth and keeps the noise down.

In the Ultra Lead, I'd go with a Tung Sol in V1 and a Shuguang 9th Gen in V2. The Shuguang has the most gain among all the valves I've used, and will give you nice harmonics and sustain (assuming the UL is your main Lead tone). I do find it a bit sharp sounding, so I dont use it for rythm.

As for the guitar, how are you tuned? And how are you checking the intonation? If it's a regular fretted guitar, and you down tune aggressively, it might cause problems because the fretboard would be set up to intonate perfectly at standard tuning. They say a Baritone guitar is the way to go for down-tuned stuff, although I didnt go down that route.

I tune to a Drop-C and a couple of my guitars dont respond well to it (even if intonation is perfect), while they sound good at standard tuning. Take it down to a pro to set up and see what they say.

Thats just my 2 cents. Hope you find this useful.

Well really, my job problem isn't that i can't find one, but i haven't had one and can't get one; i don't have the time b/c i go to school almost 24/7. So it's not a big deal...i just wish i had the time to get one so i could actually have money in my pocket. I'm taking college classes and hs classes, so that's why my schedule is so messed up. But it will be worth it in the long run. This is my senior year; next year i will be off to college....so hopefully i will have more time for a job.

The impression i have gotten is that the EH's aren't that good. That's what is in my modules now. They sound ok, but i think it could sound better. The tubes i have listed for the V2 are what Doug at Doug's Tubes recommended b/c they are similar to the Shuguangs. I'm just not sure which one of them to get for each module and what position they would do best in. I'm pretty sure i'm going to get the Tung-sol's.

I use the 1087 for everything (except cleans of course). The UL doesn't have any tubes right now. I'm going to send it to Pete when i get the money. If i end up getting enough money, i was going to get some tubes for it so i could play it some too. I play mostly death/thrash/heavy metal...and the 1087 owns in that territory. The UL wasn't quite up there. It was good for stuff like Metallica and Megadeth, but for stuff like In Flames and Soilwork, the 1087 sounded better.

I used to play in strictly E....but at one point i wanted to try some other stuff in D....then eventually i got 12's and tuned to C (that is when the 1087 came alive for the first time), then a few days ago i felt like playing a little in B. The problem started when i tuned to C. I had it set up at my local shop....i was hoping they could fix the problem, but 4-5 weeks later i got it back and it sounded great, but the problem persisted. Now i do it myself. I can get it done in a few hours....and it only cost $5 for strings. The shop does it for free, but i don't want to be w/o my guitar for 5 weeks.

I re-intonated and now it sounds a little bit better. It is still off, but i think i can ignore it.

Thanks, John.

 

[JKMV12]

This is my first post here but I have been dealing with Amps, guitars etc for 20 years. What power tubes are you using? 22MV sounds really cold. Most of the valves bias between 28-40MV. Definately could lead to the sustain issues, etc.

I'm using JJ 6V6's. They run at 25W...so 22 mV is within the recommended range. But your right, any other tube like a 6L6 or El34 would be in that range.

Forgot about those 6v6s; I hear they work pretty well. I am running some KT88s right now and they sound huge!

ya, i'm thinking about getting some 6550's (either Ruby or Svetlana) when the 6V6's finally give out. I'm just worried they will be overkill for what i need.

Can anyone comment on how much louder 6550's are compared to 6V6's?? I know they will be louder b/c they are higher wattage (about 80, right?), but how much louder? Is it a huge difference, or could i still get away with using them in a bedroom practice situation?

Let me put this in perspective: with the 1087 level at 11 o'clock, i can't get the master past noon without noise complaints from my parents. If i get 6550's, would i still be able to keep it within reasonable levels, but still have decent tone? Would i be getting enough out of them to justify getting them, or would 6L6's be more practical?

Thanks, John.

 

[Julia]

6550s are fatter sounding. The wattage volume difference is negligable. They'll break up a little later. But you won't really notice this at bedroom levels.

Drop B? Well you're only a half step lower than me. I'm using a set of straight 11 - 49s on my 24" scale Mustang and tune to Std D. I like D'Addarios in this. I don't like the real heavy bottoms because they really do affect intonation and I don't have much room to spare on that. I'm tuned in Std D on pretty much everything. 10 - 48s on my 25.5" scales. I really won't go any lower than this in tuning. The standard scales on the guitars aren't built for them.

You need a 26" scale or longer to go lower. Think about getting a baritone.

 

[JKMV12]

6550s are fatter sounding. The wattage volume difference is negligable. They'll break up a little later. But you won't really notice this at bedroom levels.

Drop B? Well you're only a half step lower than me. I'm using a set of straight 11 - 49s on my 24" scale Mustang and tune to Std D. I like D'Addarios in this. I don't like the real heavy bottoms because they really do affect intonation and I don't have much room to spare on that. I'm tuned in Std D on pretty much everything. 10 - 48s on my 25.5" scales. I really won't go any lower than this in tuning. The standard scales on the guitars aren't built for them.

You need a 26" scale or longer to go lower. Think about getting a baritone.

So if i set it up for D, then it should be fine?

Thanks, John.

 

[Julia]

Yeah, and you can still play in drop C. Rammstein plays in drop C. I wouldn't call their stuff "lite" either.

Regarding noise gates. they will hurt sustain. I don't use one. I also play single coils a lot in addition to active humbuckers. Yet I can see using one during recording.

 

[JKMV12]

Yeah, and you can still play in drop C. Rammstein plays in drop C. I wouldn't call their stuff "lite" either.

Regarding noise gates. they will hurt sustain. I don't use one. I also play single coils a lot in addition to active humbuckers. Yet I can see using one during recording.

Well with the noise gate off, there is too much noise. It starts to feedback like crazy. harmonics go straight into feedback. I will try to experiment with it, but i couldn't see playing without it.

 

[Jaded Faith]

Regarding the tubes, I have several Penta 12AX7's. There is a load of gain on tap with the modular gear in general, particularly if one of us mods your modules for you. In my 2003 VHT Pittbull 50/ST, I like the Penta's a lot. There are 2 gain stages on that amp and a third if the boost is engaged, which is not a lot by today's standards. But with the Penta's in there it is just right for me with the occasional clean boost up front for certain stuff.

In modules I often prefer JJ ECC83's and ECC803's, Tung Sol 12AX7's in cleans, occasionally Sovtek 12AX7LPS and Chinese in Recto's.

 

[JKMV12]

Yeah, and you can still play in drop C. Rammstein plays in drop C. I wouldn't call their stuff "lite" either.

Regarding noise gates. they will hurt sustain. I don't use one. I also play single coils a lot in addition to active humbuckers. Yet I can see using one during recording.

Well your right...the noise gate off does add a lot more sustain...but the only problem is whenever i stop playing, it starts to make a lot of noise and i can't stop it w/o turning the volume all the way down. I don't think it is feedback, but some kind of whining noise. Even when i mute the strings, it makes noise. Is this normal? Is there any kind of middle ground here where i can get no noise, but a decent amount of sustain?

Thanks, John.

 

[Julia]

Want to have some feedback and noise fun?

Get some P90s and play a high gain module. P90s scream, but there is a price to pay, and you've got to respect them.