JJ vs EH Preamp Thoughts

[xanthic]

I just got my new rm100c and it came with a plexi module. Which I already had. So I started playing with it and I immediatly noticed a big difference between these two. I looked and it turned out that my old plexi has Electro Harmonix tubes and the new plexi has the stock jj ecc83s in it. So I put both modules in and dialed them the exact same way and the plexi with the EH's in it sounded a million times better. Clearer, gainier, more articulate. The JJ's sounded like there was a blanket over the speakers compared to the EHs.
I never realized there was that big of a difference between these tubes. I was looking at the JJs and they have a newer 12ax7 tube, the ecc803s which is supposed to have more mids and highs. Maybe this would be a contender with the EHs. I also heard alot of good things about the tung sols. I just know that the rest of my modules that have the JJs are going to be changed shortly.

Matt

 

[3 Mile Stone]

The JJ can be a good thing too. Some modules respond well to them. They are a different flavor, but that's useful sometimes when you need that color to tune the module in where you want it.

 

[maximus1]

your comparison is very true the eh's will sound better in the modules in the way you described, but those eh's imo aren't the best thing out there by a long shot. they have a fake type sound to them it gets very noticable when you start to back up fom your cab and hear from 5 or 6 feet away the farther back you go the worse it gets . they have a cardboard sound to them i think but the first impression they give is usually pretty good. the jj are a good tube but like you said they didn't sound good at all in the plexi and to me i don't think they sound very good in any module and they perform as described in every module i've ever tried them in, that being said the jj's are imo the best sounding on the chassis in all positions. in my rm100 they brought that wet organic sound to my amp that i could not have got without trying them on the chassis. i've tried tons of tubes in all spots on the amp and as soon as i tried the jj's on chassis i experienced what you did with your eh's in your plexi module. compare v1 on your chasis by using an eh and then switching it for a jj the difference is quite shocking

 

[xanthic]

Thats interesting. I havent tried any others really so I wouldnt know. What tubes do you like in the modules? I was thinking of trying tung sols. Whats everyone using in there modules right now that they like? I will have to try the jj in the v1. I have EHs in there right now. Ill throw in a jj and see the difference. Im trying to liven the amp up. It sounds a little too compressed or processed to me right now. I want more of a raw natural tone. If that makes any sense. ha. Im running JJ power tubes and EH preamps. Just FYI
Im also considering changing to kt88s. I have heard great things about those tubes.

Thanks for the replies.

 

[joey_truelove]

When we talk JJs, are those the ECC83 (short plate), ECC803 (long plate)...?

I find the JJ short plates are brutal for high-end articulation and go well in Fender Blckfc modules and such or elsewhere where you want a hefty bite in the pre-amp section. Beware that these valves gain more than the 100 a 12AX7 or ECC83 are speced to. I run one of these in my Twin module followed by an ECC81 (used to be JJ, now EH) to compensate for its overspec'ed gain

EHs are slightly thinner sounding and have a rolled off treble and are super to balance out jangly JJs or dark and harmonically complex TSs or GTs. In some situations it's as if something is missing in the mids. If the ECC83s and the dark AX7s are too much than these can be a 'safe' alternative. I'm using AX7 and AT7s on most functional stages of my M4 and Mesa power amp.

TSs are fab for Marshall or Fender Tweed tone. If your game is blues or old school rock then these are the ones to have. The V1 of my M4 and my Plexi module have these installed. I even put one of these in the phase-inverter pos in my Mesa's channel for Marshall sound.

Note: all of the above had been cryo-treated by the dealer from whom I purchased the valves. Therefore they may sound different than those non-cryo ones available from most dealers.

 

[SacredGroove]

I just rearranged my tubes. I have EH's in v1 and TS's in v2 of 3 modules and JJ's in the RM4. I think it's the best it's sounded.

 

[muudrock]

For those of you running heads or combos, don't forget to experiment with V1 in the head. This is a very important tube in shaping the overall tone of the amp. I put a NOS preamp tube in both my RM100 and MOD 100 and the results are great. More depth and dimension to the sounds.

 

[tung]

I find the JJ short plates are brutal for high-end articulation and go well in Fender Blckfc modules and such or elsewhere where you want a hefty bite in the pre-amp section. Beware that these valves gain more than the 100 a 12AX7 or ECC83 are speced to. I run one of these in my Twin module followed by an ECC81 (used to be JJ, now EH) to compensate for its overspec'ed gain

EHs are slightly thinner sounding and have a rolled off treble and are super to balance out jangly JJs or dark and harmonically complex TSs or GTs. In some situations it's as if something is missing in the mids. If the ECC83s and the dark AX7s are too much than these can be a 'safe' alternative. I'm using AX7 and AT7s on most functional stages of my M4 and Mesa power amp.

[/b]

You right on the money as far as the description and the comparisons. I like the JJ ECC83 S omuch better than the EH for high gain, because of the better mid response.
The EH are good for the Fender Twin or Deluxe blues tinge.
I prefer the Tung Sol for this type of thing, because of the clarity and very even tones

 

[RD/Steve]

jj's = dark

eh = bright

just my observations.

i have recently found the jj's gold pin to be the best production tube i've tried. kinda like the best of both worlds. expensive but worth it.

 

[joey_truelove]

jj's = dark

eh = bright

just my observations.

i have recently found the jj's gold pin to be the best production tube i've tried. kinda like the best of both worlds. expensive but worth it.

In relative and compared to eachother I would agree on that to some degree, but we're not talking Tung-Sols or 7025s here that are very dark and very bright respectively.

Also we mustn't forget the EH is a 12AX7 and the JJ is an ECC83 or an ECC803 and these are very different animals to begin with, the AX7 with its rather linear response but with rolled off highs, and the middier 83.

 

[jsaliba]

I tried jj ecc83s against some sovtek 12ax7s in the V1 and V2 of the rm100. The jj's had less treble and rounder fuller mids. The Sovteks were more detailed and a little scooped in comparison. I liked the jjs much better for my tastes. I want to try EHs to see how they compare since I have some of those around as well.

When I was trying out tubes, I grabbed a couple of the original RCA 12ax7s from my 67 fender bassman and tried them in the v1 and v2 as well. The tubes sounded even darker than the jjs. This is really my first time swapping out tubes but I've read that the jjs are very dark tubes and they were certainly much darker than the sovteks.

Would it be normal to have the RCAs be even darker sounding or are they possibly dying? Or is this maybe the attraction of older US tubes?

jake

 

[Jaded Faith]

JJ ECC83S: Warm with prominent mids. Not too bright and opened up nicely when cranked. Great for high gain work and the gain sustained nicely when soloing, transitioning nicely into sweet sustained feedback.

EH 12AX7EH: Kind of neutral sounding. A little brighter than the JJ, but the upper highs rolled off in the Presence range. There wasn't as much sustain and gain as the JJ, notes didn't bloom into tonal feedback as well either.

Tung-Sol 12AX7: Nice and thick. Notes sounded thicker, particular single notes. Not as much gain as the JJ. I use 2 of these in my Egnater VX and it has a great uncompressed overdrive with a great balance tone-wise.

Ruby 12AX7A: This was what I think of when I hear the term "chinese". Loads of gain and scooped. The mids weren't as thick and present and a little buzzy. I tried 2 of these to make sure the tubes were okay and the results were the same.

Telefunken ECC83: Amazing tone in the Plexi. Just the right amount of gain, notes were very pronounced and clear at high gain settings, sweet harmonics and musical tone. Added a "3-D" element to the sound for lack of a better term. I see these go for around $75-100+, so not a day to day option. But I would have to pull this out for recordings.

NOS 12AX7: Old 12AXT that I got in the same module as the Telefunken. Writing is too worn to make out and the plate is shorter than the Telefunken. Tone was somewhere between the Tung-Sol and Telefunken.

 

[Caine]

Here's a great comparison chart of various preamp tubes:

http://www.tubesandmore.com/tech_corner/12ax7_comparison_of_current_made_tubes

Another comparison chart:

http://www.tube-town.net/info/doc/tt-tubemap.pdf