MTS Modders: The Rest of Your Chain

[iekobrid]

Anthony, Jeff, Pete, Rob, Scott --


When you set out to design a module that replicates / clones / pays homage to a well known amp, do you do the final tone tweaking using equipment comparable to what's commonly matched with the original amp in question? e.g. While working on a Dual Rec preamp module, are you monitoring through a 6L6 power section and a 4x12 cab with V30s; Vox preamp module, EL84s power and 2x G12M; Marshall, EL34s & G12T75s, so on and so forth?

OR instead do you monitor each new module-in-progress through one specific power section and cab combo that you use for everything and are well familiar with as an 'average' setup?

I ask because I'm curious:

? if there are "sounds ___* when used with ABC and XYZ" type rules of thumb for each of the major modders. I put " * " instead of "best" or "most accurate" because I know those are subjective concepts --- so let's say * = "as the modder intended".

? if replicating the rest of the chain as described above (using EL84s and G12Ms with a Voxless, for example) would at best be overkill and at worst comically exaggerate the core tone to an unusable degree.

 

[Jaded Faith]

You asked, so here we go...

I keep a "modest" collection of amps in my studio. The current collection is as follows:

- VHT Sig X
- Soldano SLO-100
- Mesa Mark V
- Mesa Single Rectoverb
- Traynor YBA-1
- Marshall Valvestate 8100
- Peavey 6505+
- Fender Champ
- Vox AC30 Combo
- Peavey 5150
- Engl e530
- ADA MP-1
- Egnater Renegade
- Ampeg SVT-3

For MTS amps, I have the following:

- RM50 Combo
- RM100KH
- RM1250
- Dual channel M4
- RT 2/50

Finally, the cabs:

- Mesa Recto 4x12 with WGS ET65/Vet 30
- Marshall 1960A with Celestion T75/V30
- VHT 2x12 with VHT P-100's
- Randall RS125CX with Eminence 15" and 2 Celestion G12-K100's
- Mesa 1x12 with Black Shadow C90
- Mesa Vertical 2x12 with G12-K100/C90
- Randall 1x12 with WGS BL80
- Self-built 1x12 with EVM12S
(Note: RM50C has WGS Invader and AC30 has Celestion Greenbacks)

What I try to do is either acquire or borrow any amps I replicate for the R&D process. I have virtually any speaker/power section combination I could ever need available to me and use that in the initial design phases to A/B against the real deal.

From there I'll fine tune by ear, but everything ends up in my "gold standard" MTS rig in the shop for my final tests. I have a really specific amp/tube/speaker/cab reference that everything runs through before it gets signed off on. I also need to use my 1999 PRS Custom 22 10-top for this. I bought that guitar brand new in 1999 and it was the only axe I used live between 1999 - 2011 (and if you were wondering, I never broke a single string live in that entire 12 year stretch...seriously!). So to say I have a strong bond with that axe is an understatement. It's happy retired from gigging and lives in the shop now.

A very tough lesson for me to accept was just how inaccurate mods can be if you follow the schematics alone. I wish I could get back all the time I have wasted arguing with myself that something wasn't true to a schematic but it sounded FAR closer after tuning by ear. That's the nature of what we do: build replicas on a platform that isn't exactly the same as the originals. So it's only logical that some compromises will have to be made.

So that's how things go over here in my shop. It's a blend of the actual power section, tubes and speakers for part of the process and my reference rig for the rest of it.

 

[rhequiem]

Thanks for the reply, Rob! Very informative! We need to convince you to get an RM20/22 for testing/development with the lower-wattage power section for us slobs who don't like lugging around the big iron to our bar gigs

 

[GtrGeorge!]

I agree,
although your gear list is IMPRESSIVE..us low wattage,low weight Giggers would appreciatte another reference with a RM22...

those El84s make a difference, for sure.

maybe thats why my beloved Plexi doesnt sound quite right in it..but man the Top Boost sure does!

GtrGeorge

 

[Jaded Faith]

That's certainly a big part of the equation. I have owned a few RM20's and never really held onto them for long. I can get in the same ballpark via Yellow Jackets though.

My experience with the RM20's are that they always left me a little underwhelmed. There's only so much a preamp can accomplish and the power section of those amps will never quite hang with the 50 & 100 watt amps. You will always have some degree of trade off, but that's the nature of running only a pair of EL84's.

I am not a very loud player by any means and gig my RM50 Combo with extension cab as needed. I typically keep it fairly low and use the jumpered Parallel Loop trick to compensate for lower volumes as needed.

I also repair many amps for a living and there is usually an RM20 in here every few months.

 

[rhequiem]

I'm always a little confused about the volume questions with the RM2xs. I have a pretty loud drummer in my band (hair metal), and I haven't had to turn the volume up on my modules beyond 4 before I start drowning everyone else out. We are a LOUD band, and I feel like there's still quite a bit more volume on tap in my RM22. You guys must be shaking the walls down in the places you play hehe

I totally agree about the el84s, though. To me, that seems like the biggest difference, tonally speaking.

 

[Mattfig]

I'm always a little confused about the volume questions with the RM2xs. I have a pretty loud drummer in my band (hair metal), and I haven't had to turn the volume up on my modules beyond 4 before I start drowning everyone else out. We are a LOUD band, and I feel like there's still quite a bit more volume on tap in my RM22. You guys must be shaking the walls down in the places you play hehe

I totally agree about the el84s, though. To me, that seems like the biggest difference, tonally speaking.

lol...You play in a band with smart members...I brought an RM22 to practice once...It was loud on its own but in my band it was completely buried...Of course we're known as a very loud band partially because we're deaf and partially because we're jerks...We use 3 guitarists on many songs and each of us play through a half-stack at minimum...I use MTS (obviously), my 1st guitarist plays a Mesa Stiletto stack, and my 2nd guitarist plays a mid 80s JCM800 stack...My RM100 more than handles the job as does my RM50...The RM22 was simply outmatched...Oh yeah, I should also mention that my bass player plays through a custom built 300watt (6550s) bass stack...And he's THE LOUDEST by far...It hurts some nights...My ears no longer ring but I have gotten physically sick from the vibration of his bass cabs...You can feel it in your chest...

Sound guys HATE us for these reasons as it's very hard to manage our stage volume and a good PA vocal mix...Every video I have of us playing has a sound guy asking repeatedly to lower our stage volume and let him handle it with the PA...These requests are met 100% of the time with a simple "f off." If we didn't fill clubs with drunks no one would ever have us back...

 

[rhequiem]

That's crazy lol

My other band members like volume. The other guitarist was playing through a JVM410H and a Marshall 4x12, and he likes it loud. He's now using an EVH 5153 50w, and at gig levels his volume is usually around 9:00 o'clock. For me to match him with the RM22, I usually only have to go to about 10:00-10:30. We both play through 2x12s with the EVH greenbacks in them. At one of our recent gigs, one of the backroom bartenders came up and asked us repeatedly if we could turn down, as patrons in the back couldn't hear themselves talking. We do run through the PA, though, and I do use the direct out on the RM22 into the board, but it's only to balance out what is getting to the audience, as far as where I'm located on the stage.

I would love to come out and see some other MTS users live to see what their volumes are like. I imagine there would be blood and broken bones involved (and assault charges hehe) if I cranked the volume on the rm22. I think of global genocide imagining an RM100 cranked lol

 

[Jaded Faith]

We are an extremely disciplined group when it comes to volume. We use 50 watt amps live and my volume is between 9:00-10:30 with the RM50 Combo and I add the matching extension if needed. My days of finding blistering loud half stacks as cool are long behind me. If I am in a venue where the bands volume causes discomfort I simply leave. If it's a show I am playing I'll hang elsewhere until the offenders are done. I make a living with my ears and destroying them playing live is not an option.