RESOLVED - buriedorburned please contact me

[m0jo]

I've also had only good and friendly contact and dealings with Buriedorburned..

Seriously guys, can we relax on this type of stuff and wait until reaction before going all "lynch mob" (not the band).
At least give the guy a chance to share the other side of the story before throwing him on the fire.

What I see here is fault on both sides, although I do think you should keep a constant eye on any transactions you have going on.
I tend to always keep to one form of communication, either PM or e-mail, if you want security then make sure you agree on which medium to use.

Maybe we should set up some Deal Guidelines so everyone has a good bead on how to go about making deals and following up on it.


Also:

^ you may want to adjust your signature, you have him listed as a good guy :shock:

Yeah get this guy off of the "Good Deals with:" part of your signature, man.

A good deal is a good deal.
Jumping to this before it is all settled or at least fully clear what is up is a bit premature IMO.

 

[Mattfig]

No offense to anyone involved and I think it's good buriedorburned is back on the forum and trying to make things right...

But really, no module since April? No matter how you slice it, someone isn't being forthcoming on details...And something shady is up...Either a communication breakdown, shipping issue, whatever - something happened or this wouldn't have gone this far...

If this gets resolved, please post it here so things can move forward and hopefully all remain in good standing...However, from what I've been reading, someone seems to be full of ****...Just calling a spade a spade...I do alot of deals here and don't want to get gunshy over a resolved issue...

 

[m0jo]

No offense to anyone involved and I think it's good buriedorburned is back on the forum and trying to make things right...

But really, no module since April? No matter how you slice it, someone isn't being forthcoming on details...And something shady is up...Either a communication breakdown, shipping issue, whatever - something happened or this wouldn't have gone this far...

If this gets resolved, please post it here so things can move forward and hopefully all remain in good standing...However, from what I've been reading, someone seems to be full of s*&t...Just calling a spade a spade...I do alot of deals here and don't want to get gunshy over a resolved issue...

Sure, but going apeshit like happens here sometimes is totally uncalled for.
(not you persee)

EDIT:
To clarify why I have this stance: I really like this forum because it is has sucha friendly and rational atmosphere instead of the angry shouting 13-year-old attitude hanging in many other forums.
This type of topic is fine, figuring things out and fixing them, but when it turns into a crucifixion.. it bugs me and it's not necessary.
It doesn't have to be all butterflies and flowers, but some rationale would be cool

 

[nothingeined]

No offense to anyone involved and I think it's good buriedorburned is back on the forum and trying to make things right...

But really, no module since April? No matter how you slice it, someone isn't being forthcoming on details...And something shady is up...Either a communication breakdown, shipping issue, whatever - something happened or this wouldn't have gone this far...

If this gets resolved, please post it here so things can move forward and hopefully all remain in good standing...However, from what I've been reading, someone seems to be full of s*&t...Just calling a spade a spade...I do alot of deals here and don't want to get gunshy over a resolved issue...

I will post if I do get my refund. I have all the old emails and PMs.

 

[buriedorburned]

ok, one down, refunded.

I'd like to remind everyone that when I was ripped for for $540 from Kevin (Red Witch), along with many other members, basically everyone on here did jack-****.
I got a few supportive emails with infomation kept to emails, so as not to be "dis-respectful". His local police stations information were NOT put up on the forum.
As a long standing member of this forum, I am fucking appalled at the mob mentality that took over everyone so quickly, when this happened to me it was all "hush-hush", and I lost $540, but I guess that doesn't matter, right?

I'm guessing it was just the bordom over the christmas holidays.

 

[m0jo]

ok, one down, refunded.

I'd like to remind everyone that when I was ripped for for $540 from Kevin (Red Witch), along with many other members, basically everyone on here did jack-s*&t.
I got a few supportive emails with infomation kept to emails, so as not to be "dis-respectful". His local police stations information were NOT put up on the forum.
As a long standing member of this forum, I am f&*king appalled at the mob mentality that took over everyone so quickly, when this happened to me it was all "hush-hush", and I lost $540, but I guess that doesn't matter, right?

I'm guessing it was just the bordom over the christmas holidays.

I think people are a still a bit wound up over riff19's bullshit.
I'm sure it's not a nice thing to see for you.
All we need to know is that it's solved, personally I don't need to know any more details, and I shouldn't since it's your deal.

 

[Mattfig]

ok, one down, refunded.

I'd like to remind everyone that when I was ripped for for $540 from Kevin (Red Witch), along with many other members, basically everyone on here did jack-s*&t.
I got a few supportive emails with infomation kept to emails, so as not to be "dis-respectful". His local police stations information were NOT put up on the forum.
As a long standing member of this forum, I am f&*king appalled at the mob mentality that took over everyone so quickly, when this happened to me it was all "hush-hush", and I lost $540, but I guess that doesn't matter, right?

I'm guessing it was just the bordom over the christmas holidays.

I think people are a still a bit wound up over riff19's bullshit.
I'm sure it's not a nice thing to see for you.
All we need to know is that it's solved, personally I don't need to know any more details, and I shouldn't since it's your deal.

You make good points m0jo, as always...I respect the forum here as well and find it to be a pleasant and EXTREMELY useful place...I didn't want to join in on lynching anyone here either but do believe it's imperitive that we know if someone is possibly doing shady business...I think people's strong reactions are for the reason of protecting a great forum rather than nitpicking...When you have a group of people selling and exchanging lots of gear, someone needs to sound the alarm if something seems off...I think we're all very rational people and I believe that no one is gonna come outta this situation stinking if the right thing is done....Miscommunication is not the same as screwing someone...But, on that same note, we really should setup guidelines for these exchanges...It's always up to the buyer and seller of course, but maybe there should be a list of expectations...

I'll start, maybe we can each add one...

*. Item shipment must occur within 48 hours of payment received (and cleared, if on hold). Item shipment should include a tracking number and always be packed well.

Maybe we can start a scoring system too...Kinda like Ebay....Rate the transaction...But there's so few of us that it's kinda a bit too grandiose an idea for this joint...

I hope this all works out but after that riff19 thing, I'm sure we're all worried there's another fox in the henhouse...

 

[m0jo]

Glad you appreciate my viewpoint.
Yeah a scoring system is maybe too ambitious, but some guidelines should definitly work.

When we gather a good set of guidelines we can set up a sticky-prone topic on it

*Sellers and Buyers should always react timely to any correspondence from the other party, regardless of the medium (PM / E-mail). That also means it is your responsibility to keep an eye on whatever medium you have used before.

A comment on yours: 48 hours might be a bit tight in some situations.
I'd say one week maximum (that is, at the very very most).

 

[crankyrayhanky]

I tried to take cautious approach, but look at the facts buriedburned- months go by without product nor information. Then 2 more people chime in from many moons ago telling the same tale. This is not a trigger-happy lynch mob, I view the aftermath as totally expected and appropriate.

"Absent minded" to me is neglecting a shipment for a week or 2, not several months. Moving to another amp and not checking in is also not even close to being valid when we're looking at the multiple complaints and timeframes. Also invalid is your story of being ripped off and no one came to your rescue- that's a totally seperate incident and irrelevant.

Big time applause though for trying to correct things now- but don't ruin it by coming off hostile towards the people who felt screwed as well as the forum members who became irate. If I sent out a mod in a trade only to have nothing returned and no communication for months, I could care less about Red Witch, Engl, whatever- I would have already filed the police report before posting here. Count yourself lucky.

 

[Daryl]

No offense to anyone involved and I think it's good buriedorburned is back on the forum and trying to make things right...

But really, no module since April? No matter how you slice it, someone isn't being forthcoming on details...And something shady is up...Either a communication breakdown, shipping issue, whatever - something happened or this wouldn't have gone this far...

If this gets resolved, please post it here so things can move forward and hopefully all remain in good standing...However, from what I've been reading, someone seems to be full of s*&t...Just calling a spade a spade...I do alot of deals here and don't want to get gunshy over a resolved issue...

Agreed...
I have nothing else to add.

 

[Daryl]

I tried to take cautious approach, but look at the facts buriedburned- months go by without product nor information. Then 2 more people chime in from many moons ago telling the same tale. This is not a trigger-happy lynch mob, I view the aftermath as totally expected and appropriate.

"Absent minded" to me is neglecting a shipment for a week or 2, not several months. Moving to another amp and not checking in is also not even close to being valid when we're looking at the multiple complaints and timeframes. Also invalid is your story of being ripped off and no one came to your rescue- that's a totally seperate incident and irrelevant.

Big time applause though for trying to correct things now- but don't ruin it by coming off hostile towards the people who felt screwed as well as the forum members who became irate. If I sent out a mod in a trade only to have nothing returned and no communication for months, I could care less about Red Witch, Engl, whatever- I would have already filed the police report before posting here. Count yourself lucky.

I just agreed with Figs statement. I don't want to just be the guy agreeing with everyone, but Ray states the reality of the situation very clearly and effectively as well. All of these points are legitimate things to consider and the bottom line is that something was not done properly and there is a natural response to that. We forum members have a right to express our discontent and to point out the problems we see. That's how we look out for one another. For the people that did their part of the deal and received not so much as a response: Those are the guys that I sympathize with. I think that doing the right thing is a very positive thing to do and I don't think that you should be booted off the forum or anything like that. Don't be hostile towards the people you are apologizing to. It just comes off as insincere and forced. Like you were inconvenienced when you were the one inconveniencing others. Lesson learned I hope. Be cool.
Peace.

 

[Mikal69]

[email protected], hopefully you make good on your word.

 

[m0jo]

Daryl, no offence mate, but look back to your reply on page 2 of this thread.
I'm sure it was a spur of the moment type thing, but it's not the type of atmosphere I want to get caught up in, no matter what the motivation is.
I agree with what you are saying now, but how it was expressed earlyer is what was disturbing to me personally.

But ok, lets leave it at that and try to create a situation in which these things can be avoided.
Making clear arrangements and agreements about how it's going to go down is important and should save you from this crap in most cases.

Then there are cases like riff19 pulled, but I think that is unavoidable when you buy/sell indirectly, just use security like PP or credit cards to protect yourself from that and you should be fine.

 

[nothingeined]

[email protected], hopefully you make good on your word.

I got my refund earlier and my PMs were answer. Thanks for making this right.

 

[Mattfig]

yeah...Gotta say Ray speaks the truth...Harsh though it may be, it;s true and this place has little tolerance for **** after the scams that have occurred...Screwing people is never cool and very rarely an accident or oversight...

Daryl sympathizes with those that I do as well...I gotta say you guys have had more patience and self-restraint then I would have...Hell just ask cold Machine, he's a great guy, and I even got pissy with him... :lol: Biz is biz...Friends are friends...Not the same...

Seriouisly, hope this works out...But someone's gotta take credit for the **** smell...

Just turned 39 and am still as immature as I was when I was twelve...

 

[Hamner1]

*. Item shipment must occur within 48 hours of payment received (and cleared, if on hold). Item shipment should include a tracking number

This seems logical and always a good idea. But the problem with this lies in shipping over the pond deals. To ship from here to there for me anyway would run about $40-$45 for a module just to be able to have a tracking/delivery confirmation #. I don't know too many people wanting to pay that price unless they were getting a steal of a deal on a mod.

Communication timeline after payment received:
1. Seller - Email/PM that item(s) shipped and any other related info.
2. Seller - weekly email/PM to inquire if item(s) received.
a. maybe biweekly for deals that are international.
3. Buyer - email when received.
a. Also follow up with any issues at that time.
b. Allow seller to offer a remedy for issues.
c. Counter remedy offer (if offer was unacceptable).
i. Solicit a remedy for the issues if non was received.
95% of the deals should be good at this point. If not burn them at the stake I guess. I really don't know what recourse anyone would have.

Item Description "map". I'm being polite with the phrase map as I think this is absolutely ridiculous. But apparently needed.

NEW - Means was never opened & stock from the factory.
MINT - Looks new. All parts operate as if the item was new.
USED - Usual where and tear (marks, scratches, tears, etc), but functions as it should. All parts included and connected.
MOD - Means the module has been modded by someone other than recognized pro modders. This also designates the item as used.
PROMOD - Item was modded by a professional tech (doesn't need to be associated with the board), but needs to be employed by or running a business that is in the field of instrument repair.
* maybe we need 2 designations for this type of mod. PROMOD = board "certified" modders. SEMIPROMOD = Professional tech in the field of instrument repair.
ISSUE 1 - Item operates as it should, but a part is missing or doesn't work.
a. Obviously need to name the part(s) and issue(s)
ISSUE 2 - Rough shape but operates at least partially
a. a little harder to define. But only 1 channel of a multi channel amp works seems to be a good example.
ISSUE 3 - As is not functioning/for parts

The other point you mentioned on shipping turn around I think is reasonable, unless agreed upon prior to the sale between the parties involved.

 

[Daryl]

Daryl, no offence mate, but look back to your reply on page 2 of this thread.
I'm sure it was a spur of the moment type thing, but it's not the type of atmosphere I want to get caught up in, no matter what the motivation is.
I agree with what you are saying now, but how it was expressed earlyer is what was disturbing to me personally.

But ok, lets leave it at that and try to create a situation in which these things can be avoided.
Making clear arrangements and agreements about how it's going to go down is important and should save you from this crap in most cases.
.

You mean this: "Yeah!!! Don't let this go unanswered guys!!! Get the proper authorities involved and stick it to these little thieving bitches!!! If that dude from the UK thinks he can hide across the pond, that is just some punk *** s*&t. Maybe we can come up with certain terms to these type of deals that assure mutual security for both parties. Using Paypal is a good one, but for trades it is a lot more sketchy. I hate to hear about this stuff because we got such a cool thing going here and it sucks to have to be watching for bad guys all the time. I know who some of the good guys are and I am totally grateful for that. I have had nothing but the finest quality of deals with people on this forum and that feels really good. To transition to a more positive vibe, I would like to point out that fraud and deceit seems to be out of the norm for this forum. Stay tight fellas, blow the horn on the assholes, and everything should go alright. Just a side note: I always go check out the "Good Guys List" before I purchase from someone that I haven't dealt with or have seen doing good business. You can search a name and find out a pretty good amount that way. Peace."
I made a sharp statement, but that was appropriate considering the situation. Point to me exactly what was so disturbing to you. The dude took months not days or weeks to do so much as answer an e-mail. I then transitioned things into a more positive light. So why don't you stop trying to project the image of being on the moral high-ground. I get what you are driving at and I disagree that people have been too hard. I think that, for some reason, you are trying to be adversarial by being ridiculously soft. Bottom line: Clear arrangements were made, communication broke down, and people voiced their concerns on the forum. It shouldn't have gotten this far. I don't know why you are being so sympathetic to the wrong doer. That is more disturbing to me.

 

[Daryl]

*. Item shipment must occur within 48 hours of payment received (and cleared, if on hold). Item shipment should include a tracking number

This seems logical and always a good idea. But the problem with this lies in shipping over the pond deals. To ship from here to there for me anyway would run about $40-$45 for a module just to be able to have a tracking/delivery confirmation #. I don't know too many people wanting to pay that price unless they were getting a steal of a deal on a mod.

Communication timeline after payment received:
1. Seller - Email/PM that item(s) shipped and any other related info.
2. Seller - weekly email/PM to inquire if item(s) received.
a. maybe biweekly for deals that are international.
3. Buyer - email when received.
a. Also follow up with any issues at that time.
b. Allow seller to offer a remedy for issues.
c. Counter remedy offer (if offer was unacceptable).
i. Solicit a remedy for the issues if non was received.
95% of the deals should be good at this point. If not burn them at the stake I guess. I really don't know what recourse anyone would have.

Item Description "map". I'm being polite with the phrase map as I think this is absolutely ridiculous. But apparently needed.

NEW - Means was never opened & stock from the factory.
MINT - Looks new. All parts operate as if the item was new.
USED - Usual where and tear (marks, scratches, tears, etc), but functions as it should. All parts included and connected.
MOD - Means the module has been modded by someone other than recognized pro modders. This also designates the item as used.
PROMOD - Item was modded by a professional tech (doesn't need to be associated with the board), but needs to be employed by or running a business that is in the field of instrument repair.
* maybe we need 2 designations for this type of mod. PROMOD = board "certified" modders. SEMIPROMOD = Professional tech in the field of instrument repair.
ISSUE 1 - Item operates as it should, but a part is missing or doesn't work.
a. Obviously need to name the part(s) and issue(s)
ISSUE 2 - Rough shape but operates at least partially
a. a little harder to define. But only 1 channel of a multi channel amp works seems to be a good example.
ISSUE 3 - As is not functioning/for parts

The other point you mentioned on shipping turn around I think is reasonable, unless agreed upon prior to the sale between the parties involved.

I like this.
I would totally agree to these terms. They are reasonable, create transparency, and maintain strong communication.

 

[HughJasol]

Seriously guys, can we relax on this type of stuff and wait until reaction before going all "lynch mob" (not the band).
At least give the guy a chance to share the other side of the story before throwing him on the fire.

I agree with m0jo's philosophy completely. However I feel that philosophy doesn't apply in this situation. I mean, how many more months should we have waited to "give the guy a chance to share the other side of the story"? In this case I agree 100% with crankyrayhanky:

months go by without product nor information. Then 2 more people chime in from many moons ago telling the same tale.

...

"Absent minded" to me is neglecting a shipment for a week or 2, not several months. Moving to another amp and not checking in is also not even close to being valid when we're looking at the multiple complaints and timeframes

Also, I specifically asked johnodge whether buriedorburned had read his PMs and he said that while he had not read the ones sent 3 weeks ago, buriedorburned DID read the ones sent to him in November - yet he ignored them. So the excuse of not getting email rather than PMs is a bullshit excuse too, because he received the messages, read them, and ignored them - period.

How does one do a sale or trade and not confirm that their package was received, and that everything is satisfactory on the other end? Not doing so is piss poor communication, and if you're someone who thinks that's OK then I don't want to do business with you. I've actually bugged people I've sent packages to 2 or sometimes 3 times before they'd get back to me to tell me that they received it and that everything is great.

I'm glad buriedorburned has finally appeared and is making things right, but I'm sorry . . . in all honesty I don't feel much, if any different about his reputation than I did 24 hours ago.

 

[HughJasol]

Communication timeline after payment received:
1. Seller - Email/PM that item(s) shipped and any other related info.
2. Seller - weekly email/PM to inquire if item(s) received.
a. maybe biweekly for deals that are international.
3. Buyer - email when received.
a. Also follow up with any issues at that time.
b. Allow seller to offer a remedy for issues.
c. Counter remedy offer (if offer was unacceptable).
i. Solicit a remedy for the issues if non was received.

I like it! And while this is sort of covered by the 48-hour shipping rule, I would add as a prerequisite to #1 that the shipping date(s) be established before the buyer sends payment, and yes - simply stating "tomorrow or the next day" is acceptable and falls within that 48-hour rule. However, I had an experience on this board where I scrambled to get payment to the seller as quickly as I could that day - I believe it was a Monday, or possibly a Tuesday - only to find out after I made the payment that the seller was out of town and that he should be able to ship it me Saturday (it turned out to be much later than that before he finally shipped it, and I think it was 2 weeks and a day before I actually had the package in my hands). I wasn't too happy, as I felt that this was clearly something that I should have been made aware of before I sent payment, and he had every opportunity to tell me this beforehand, and in fact I believe we actually talked on the phone that day before I sent payment (not 100% sure on that). BTW - I won't mention names, I will say that this member has made numerous deals prior to and since our deal; and that based on that I wouldn't hesitate to deal with him again. I'm fairly confident I was just that one fluke deal where he fell flat on his face.

So if a seller (or one party of a trade) cannot ship within 48 hours (or less, if that's what was agreed by both parties), then that fact should be made clear up front.