RM100 FX Loop & Eventide FX

[Corium_AZ]

Ok, so I'm pretty sure I want to grab one of these new Eventide H9's:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=j3H06DHa4gI

I've not tried to use my FX loop on my RM100 yet, as all my FX have been out front. I want FX applied to my drive channels tho, so here we go.

Has anyone here had any success/issues with using eventide FX in the RM100 loop? What exactly is generally the problem associated with these FX loops? I know folks generally hate them, but why exactly? Is this problem avoidable when using an RM4/M4 + power amp combo?

Any tips here would be appreciated before dropping $500 on an FX processor.

Thanks.

 

[MarcoR]

From what I've seen on the Eventide forum, there have been a few complaints about the H9s clipping with a hot signal. That doesn't look promising for use with an RM amp.

Where the factor pedals had an input level switch to go from "guitar" to "line" level, with the H9, the input level is controlled from the settings configuration or the software editor.

I find with the factor pedals I use, Space clips earlier than the Timefactor or Pitchfactor. I use an M4 and with the master volume, it's easy to keep the signal going into the factors under control while having your modules at a good level. So yes, I think the problem of the hot loop level in the RM amps is avoided using an RM4 or M4.

I also split the stereo signal out of the Pitchfactor to run into the Timefactor and Space in parallel. Everything is mixed back together using a RJM mini line mixer so I can further attenuate or boost the signal back to the power amp at that point.

If I had it to do over, I would just get an Eclipse and have everything my factor pedals have and more, plus, better A/D converters with superior signal control and internal routing. I did just pick up a Lexicon PCM80 that may replace the Timefactor and Space. We?ll see..

 

[MarcoR]

ROCK

:twisted:

 

[Corium_AZ]

Hmm, ok, not sounding promising, lol. Anyone have direct experience with the eventide fx units & RM heads?

Thanks Marco.

 

[MarcoR]

Hmm, ok, not sounding promising, lol. Anyone have direct experience with the eventide fx units & RM heads?

Thanks Marco.

Of course you can always add a S.T.E.P. pedal, Ebtech Line Level Shifter or Egnater Loop gadget to deal with the loop levels and you would be set. Eventides sound great.

 

[Corium_AZ]

Hmm, ok, not sounding promising, lol. Anyone have direct experience with the eventide fx units & RM heads?

Thanks Marco.

Of course you can always add a S.T.E.P. pedal, Ebtech Line Level Shifter or Egnater Loop gadget to deal with the loop levels and you would be set. Eventides sound great.

Yeah, I figured as much. Just hoping I could avoid that... $ tight these days...

 

[kc2eeb]

I use an Eventide SPACE pedal which has Line level input and output settings.
Believe it or not I won it in a Premier Guitar giveaway promotion. It works well. What I would do is take your amp to the music store and try it out with your modules, your guitar in your own amp and then make the decision.
Or order it from a good, no B.S. dealer who will let you try it out with a return policy. I personally deal with Sweetwater and they have been great. They will go the extra mile for the customer and are quite knowledgeable.

http://eventide.com/~/media/Files/Audio%20Support/Space/Everyone/142335.ashx

 

[Corium_AZ]

Yeah, I suppose I should just grab one from Guitar Center. I buy, try, and return stuff to them regularly. Maybe too regularly, lol. Last time I was there, returning yet another piece if gear, dude said I was tied with one other guy, as the 'return king' at that GC, lol!

I call it the 'good ol Guitar Center shuffle'... Throw it on a credit card, use it for a few weeks, bring it on back, lol. Always 100% refund including shipping costs, no questions asked! But, I do try to avoid being that guy, lol .

Thanks.

 

[Corium_AZ]

All right, well I managed to snag a used H9 from GC.com. Should be here in a couple days. If it turns out that I need an FX loop line level dealio (the technical term), like the STEP pedal or Ebtech - are any of those options tone suckers? I've searched a bit & found that folks find the ebtech device to suck the tone. Is this true? And if so, does the STEP pedal not do this? Any other options?

Thanks.

 

[kc2eeb]

The Ebtech is a passive device. I've never had one apart so this is a guess.
It "steps down" the signal from the send jack in the parallel loop to instrument level, probably a resistive network, goes out to the effect pedals,
but when it comes back out it uses a transformer to match levels and so you get "tone suck."
The S.T.E.P. pedal as well as the Egnater box are active and so raise the return signal to the "loop return" jack back to line level. I've got both and they both work.
Having said all that I don't think you should have any problem with the H9.
What you should do is go to the Eventide website and download the H9 control utility. Lets you do lots of stuff with the pedal controlled by the program.

 

[Corium_AZ]

The Ebtech is a passive device. I've never had one apart so this is a guess.
It "steps down" the signal from the send jack in the parallel loop to instrument level, probably a resistive network, goes out to the effect pedals,
but when it comes back out it uses a transformer to match levels and so you get "tone suck."
The S.T.E.P. pedal as well as the Egnater box are active and so raise the return signal to the "loop return" jack back to line level. I've got both and they both work.
Having said all that I don't think you should have any problem with the H9.
What you should do is go to the Eventide website and download the H9 control utility. Lets you do lots of stuff with the pedal controlled by the program.

Awesome, hope your right!

Thanks.

I'll check back in here when I get it and have it up & running.

 

[Corium_AZ]

Ok, well, got the H9 yesterday, and had a few hours to play around with it last night. I ended up having to drop my module volumes to about 10 o'clock (from my normal 3 o'clock), in order to keep from clipping the unit, even at minimum input gain. So, it would appear that the H9 has the same issue as many other fx boxes. The module volumes at 10 o'clock results in unacceptable tone, IMO.

So, I contacted rob for a STEP pedal, and was told he just recently discontinued the pedals. So, it would appear my only other viable option is one of the Ebtech units. Or, is there anything else y'all know about? Is the ebtech a tone sucker?

Hope I can get this sorted out soon, cuz that H9 is an amazing fx unit! And, it fits inside my rm100 head shell & is midi controllable, and can be adjusted wirelessly via my iPhone or iPad. This thing was made for mts!

 

[kc2eeb]

http://eventide.com/~/media/Files/Audio%20Support/H9/Everyone/H9UserGuide18.ashx
Do you have this?

 

[kc2eeb]

Before you get a ebtech, do you have a simple passive volume pedal?

 

[MarcoR]

Have you adjusted the Input Gain and Level Meters in the H9 Control software? Not sure how much that will help. Out of curiosity, are you running it in the serial loop or in the parallel loop with kildry on?

 

[kc2eeb]

A simple passive attenuator circuit is very much like a guitar volume control.
You could try a 50k pot wired across the loop output, #1 lug hot, #3 lug common ground, and #2 lug (wiper) to the H9 input. You could try different value pots so you could run the module where you want it and adjust the line in to the H9 so it works right. I think that would work. I under stand the H9 automatically sets it's output depending on the input level.

 

[kc2eeb]

and what MarcoR said.

 

[Corium_AZ]

A simple passive attenuator circuit is very much like a guitar volume control.
You could try a 50k pot wired across the loop output, #1 lug hot, #3 lug common ground, and #2 lug (wiper) to the H9 input. You could try different value pots so you could run the module where you want it and adjust the line in to the H9 so it works right. I think that would work. I under stand the H9 automatically sets it's output depending on the input level.

I would then experience an overall reduction in signal and therefore volume, right? Requiring the need to compensate via increased master volume? I could handle that, but the mods just sound like crap with their outputs that low...

Maybe it's time for a trip to radio shack...

And yes, the H9 does automatically compensate the output level.

 

[kc2eeb]

I think what would happen is that ,since it's a parallel loop, the clean signal from the guitar won't be affected. What you then have to see is if the effects volume give you enough effect level. Since the H9 can take a higher level in than an instrument level stomp box the return level should be higher and work OK in the return. An educated guess. I wouldn't hesitate to contact Eventide also. I've spoken to them directly and they were very helpful.

 

[Corium_AZ]

Sorry, didn't see earlier (Pg 1) replies.

Yes, I have the manual and read through it.

And, yes, I've reduced input gain as much as the SW allows. Still clips easily.

I do not have a volume pedal.

I tried both parallel & series. Kinda hard to hear the fx in the parallel loop, so gave up on that...

And yeah, I tried the killdry too, same issue - can't hear it well at all (H9 output level too low in comparison to guitar).

Thanks.