RM22 Silent Mode

[imagimotion]

I'm encountering a behavior with my amp that I'd love others to chime in on to see if there is something wrong with my head, or if this is the standard behavior. According to the manual, it says that if I have the head in Silent mode that the XLR Recording Out should still send a signal out of the head. I am not seeing this. In fact, no signal is generated from any of the outputs, the line out, XLR direct record out or the Effects send. I would have thought that the Effects Send should still work in silent mode because it might be necessary to include effects in the loop if recording. However, if I connect a speaker and switch the head to Live mode, then I do get signal from the Effects Send, line out and XLR recording out. Is this normal? It definitely is not what I expected based on the description in the manual.

I've contacted Randall support on this some time ago, and I haven't received a response yet. So I'm hoping the greater community at large can chime in to let me know if I need to have my head looked at.

 

[Shinozoku]

Come to us first

If I recall, the amp required a speaker or dummy load to operate, period.

Correct me if I'm wrong, folks!

 

[PhiloBeddoe]

In my RM20 combo the XLR output does work when the silent switch is engaged. My other setup is the RM4/RT250, in which there is no such switch.

Sorry, this probably wasn't too helpful.

 

[JKD]

The RM20 Combo and Head are supposed to have an internal load/protection built in...this has been confirmed by someone from Randall and I believe Egnater.

I'm just *assuming* the RM22 retains that feature but it would be nice to have it confirmed.

 

[bruce egnater]

I had nothing to do with the RM22 amp so I can't comment on how they did things. The RM20 in the silent mode switches an internal dummy load to replace the speaker.....hence the term silent. Everything still functions as normal except that you don't need to have a speaker connected because it has it's own load inside. Sounds like your RM22 is not working correctly.

 

[imagimotion]

Thanks for the input, Bruce. That is what I'm thinking as well. I've built a few amps of my own, and I'm thinking about opening it up to trace the circuit to see if I can assess whether it's by design or not. I had the RM20 combo at one point, and it worked as you describe in Silent mode. The RM22, unfortunately, seems to be a different beast altogether. I'll post my findings after I've had a chance to look inside.

 

[imagimotion]

OK. So I took the head out and had a look, and I am not happy at what I found. There does not appear to be any dummy load resistors tied to the speaker output when the amp is in silent mode, which leads me to conclude that this is not silent mode but a STANDBY!!! And given what was mentioned in this thread http://mtsforum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?t=11744&sid=4e42002bd70976edb2fd750dc90b02be that some versions of the RM22 actually had Standby and Play labels pasted over the top of the Silent and Live markings, I believe my conclusion is correct. I really wish Randall would chime in on this because not only is the manual factually wrong, but if you run it without a speaker connected as they claim, you will damage your amp!!!

All of this pretty much reinforces what I believed to be the case and why when you switch from Silent to Live mode it takes time before the signal comes through the speakers because it is in fact switching from standby where only the heaters are active to full power through the power tubes when engaging live mode. This is a huge liability issue for Randall, and I'm shocked that this hasn't been addressed earlier.

 

[nomad100]

on the bright side it's super easy to build a dummy load

 

[imagimotion]

OK. I got official word from Randall that there is in fact a dummy load on the RM22. It just doesn't look like one at first blush. There is a component that I thought was a power transistor that has a heat sink on it that supposedly provides the load required for the head. I'd love to see what this actually is in the schematic because it sure doesn't resemble any kind of dummy load resistor like I've seen in practice on more than a few devices. Maybe it's a power soak bleeder?? Not really sure, but I did get confirmation from folks at Randall that there is an internal dummy load circuit when the amp is in silent mode.

Just thought I would share that info in case anyone was still wondering about this. However, they did not confirm that the head is supposed to be sending signal to the XLR direct out when in silent mode. Although they're response SEEMS to indicate that running in Live mode without a speaker attached should be internally compensated with a dummy load, I would recommend attaching some kind of external dummy load like a Weber Mass attenuator if you plan to do "silent" recording with the RM22 until someone at Randall officially resolves this particular point of interest.

 

[Anomaly]

How does the Speaker simulation sounds like on the RM22? good or better than other amp simulator like my HD500? Is it worth to try? :?

 

[nlstudio]

I realize this is a fairly old thread but I thought I'd add my 2c. My RM22 head does NOT have a silent mode. It has a standby mode, like most other real amps. There is no signal to any output (including the XLR) when in standby mode. The silent mode is an added feature available on the combos to allow you to turn off the speaker when using the direct out. The head version doesn't need the silent mode, you just unplug the speaker. The manual isn't very detailed or clear but does say "? Silent Mode sends amp signal to XLR output and mutes speaker outputs- The amp can work standalone withoutspeaker hooked up (Automatic when no external speaker connected on Head versions)". I overlooked that last phrase about the head versions when I first got my amp. When I finally realized what they were saying, I was able to use the amp direct with no speaker connected and no worries. I've been recording this way for about a month with no issues so far.

To answer the other question about how it sounds direct, I'd say it sounds fair, although better than many amps direct, until you add speaker impulses. Once you add impulses, it can sound VERY good. I'm running the direct XLR out from the RM22 into a DW FEARN tube preamp (I know, overkill!), into the recorder and then adding Redwirez impulses in Logic and am VERY happy with the results. For live use, I don't think direct to the sound board would sound good enough, although you might be able to run through some sort of cabinet emulater.

Hope this helps. It's my first post, so please be gentle!

 

[Anomaly]

I realize this is a fairly old thread but I thought I'd add my 2c. My RM22 head does NOT have a silent mode. It has a standby mode, like most other real amps. There is no signal to any output (including the XLR) when in standby mode. The silent mode is an added feature available on the combos to allow you to turn off the speaker when using the direct out. The head version doesn't need the silent mode, you just unplug the speaker. The manual isn't very detailed or clear but does say "? Silent Mode sends amp signal to XLR output and mutes speaker outputs- The amp can work standalone withoutspeaker hooked up (Automatic when no external speaker connected on Head versions)". I overlooked that last phrase about the head versions when I first got my amp. When I finally realized what they were saying, I was able to use the amp direct with no speaker connected and no worries. I've been recording this way for about a month with no issues so far.

To answer the other question about how it sounds direct, I'd say it sounds fair, although better than many amps direct, until you add speaker impulses. Once you add impulses, it can sound VERY good. I'm running the direct XLR out from the RM22 into a DW FEARN tube preamp (I know, overkill!), into the recorder and then adding Redwirez impulses in Logic and am VERY happy with the results. For live use, I don't think direct to the sound board would sound good enough, although you might be able to run through some sort of cabinet emulater.

Hope this helps. It's my first post, so please be gentle!

Thanks! I was pretty skeptical about that silent mode.. I might try it one time see how it sounds? thru pa or powered monitors..