Salvation Angel, SG MK22, Diablo & Fisch Hi Gain clips!

[Kapo_Polenton]

Good posts Mike. You are right, perception is everything. I love all of EVH's tones up until DLR left. I do hear the tone thinning out some towards the later stuff but i still hear the fingers doing the talking along with the phrasing. Which leads me to your other points.. tone is to an extent in the fingers but it is also in how your ear hears things and want things to sound. I do hear a big difference in the heavy more modern stuff as well. At the end of the day regardless of the module, I still dial in the tonestacks in very similar fashions because to me ear, that is what I like. It is quite interesting how we all gravitate towards the sounds we like.

Completely unrelated though, that mojave mic sounds incredible, I can't get over how natural it sounds. The 57's have a certain sound and are great for certain things but I am now seeing that they bump/focus the mids some. That mojave is really faithful to what is coming out of the speakers it seems.

 

[Mike P]

Completely unrelated though, that mojave mic sounds incredible, I can't get over how natural it sounds. The 57's have a certain sound and are great for certain things but I am now seeing that they bump/focus the mids some. That mojave is really faithful to what is coming out of the speakers it seems.

The Mojave 201 is by far, the best mic I've ever owned and used on guitar and bass cabinets.

I've owned and tried nearly everything: 57, 57/421, 906, Royer R121, 121/57, 414, 414/57, i5, i5/57, i5/421, AEA R92, R92/57/i5, AEA R84, Cascade Fathead II, Fathead/57, MXL V69, V69/57, AT4050, AT4040, AT4040/57, etc.

With all of those mics and mic combos, I was never able to capture the true sound from the amp. A fellow producer/composer friend brought over the Mojave 201 in September 2010 for me to try and I was immediately blown away. I bought a pair (one for bass and one for guitar) and have never been happier with my recordings. They're great on toms, kick drums, overheads and vocals, too!

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

That's a crap load of mics for sure.. I was thinking of going the fathead II route with 57 myself but then I think i am better off waiting a few pay cheques and just picking up a mojave. Clips don't lie and so far i like every single one of yours.

Another question for you.. we've talked about preamps a bit already and i understand that mic placement and room treatment is a big part of the sound BUT would you say a good mic pre is essential in getting the sound that the mic reproduces? I've been reading a lot of info on forums and some people say a 57 for example will sound vastly different through a good pre. Opinions on this? My presonus isn't top of the line but it also isn't total crap and very useful for recording a drum kit. Personally I'd rather put money towards a good mic like the mojave (which by the way gets great reviews) over a better preamp for my 57.

 

[Mike P]

That's a crap load of mics for sure.. I was thinking of going the fathead II route with 57 myself but then I think i am better off waiting a few pay cheques and just picking up a mojave. Clips don't lie and so far i like every single one of yours.

Another question for you.. we've talked about preamps a bit already and i understand that mic placement and room treatment is a big part of the sound BUT would you say a good mic pre is essential in getting the sound that the mic reproduces? I've been reading a lot of info on forums and some people say a 57 for example will sound vastly different through a good pre. Opinions on this? My presonus isn't top of the line but it also isn't total crap and very useful for recording a drum kit. Personally I'd rather put money towards a good mic like the mojave (which by the way gets great reviews) over a better preamp for my 57.

A mic pre makes a HUGE difference. I'd recommend a Golden Age Pre73 mkII, which is a Neve clone, just like the Vintech's I use. But, they're a fraction of the cost and sound unbelieveable! They're only $349.00 at Musician's Friend and the like and Zen Pro Audio offers a Carnhill Transformer upgrade (the same as in the Vintech's and original Neve 1073's) for only $200.00.

But I wouldn't hesitate to pick up the Pre 73 MkII and record to your heart's content. I'm certain the tracks would sound slammin', especially with the Mojave!

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

Ok so the last part of the equation... CONVERTERS. As it stands i would have to still use my Presonus to get the sound into my DAW.. would that affect the tone somewhat? mic- pre-presonus (converting)- DAW.

 

[Mike P]

Ok so the last part of the equation... CONVERTERS. As it stands i would have to still use my Presonus to get the sound into my DAW.. would that affect the tone somewhat? mic- pre-presonus (converting)- DAW.

You'll just have to see how well they work. I don't have any experience with those converters, so I have no idea what a final mix would sound like with them.

 

[Whoopysnorp]

In my experience, I would say that unless you're outfitting a pro studio, don't be too concerned about converters. I mean, don't use the cheapest unit you can get, but I don't think you're going to get any night-and-day differences in the audio until you're laying out $500 or so per channel. Worry about the other stuff first--I'd say the order in which you should invest in your chain is mics first, preamps second, and converters only after everything else is as good as you plan to get it. Remember that monitoring is a neglected part of the process that warrants an investment. If your monitors and room don't let you hear what's really going on, then you can't make very good use of your fancy signal chain.

 

[SALVAGED]

Hey Mike... how did you have Fisch dialed in (it sounds KILLER)?

 

[Mike P]

Hey Mike... how did you have Fisch dialed in (it sounds KILLER)?

Gain: 1 o'clock
Bass: 11 o'clock
Mid: 10 o'clock
Treble: 1.7 o'clock
Tight switch: On
Density: 10 o'clock
Presence: 11 o'clock.

I'd imagine that the way I have mine dialed in won't be of much help because most likely, I'm using a different guitar, strings, picks, speaker and speaker cabinet than you're using. But that said, good luck!

 

[Mike P]

In my experience, I would say that unless you're outfitting a pro studio, don't be too concerned about converters. I mean, don't use the cheapest unit you can get, but I don't think you're going to get any night-and-day differences in the audio until you're laying out $500 or so per channel.

Converters these days are pretty **** good. I've heard good recordings with the new Steinberg converters, Apogee Duet and Duet II and RME converters.

I have an Apogee Rosetta clocked to a DA16x, so I have quite a bit of money locked up in converters. But since I purchased mine in early 2007, there are many, many alternatives for far less that perform nearly equally - some would say equally, and I don't think I'd argue that point.

If I were starting over today, I'd go for the Lynx Aurora 16 (they offer an 8 channel version as well). But for more budget minded setups, it's really difficult to beat the new Steinberg/Yamaha converters, especially when you can get 24 channels for $799.99. The two units below those, the Ci2+ & UR28M, both offer tons of features and a great sound for less than $400.00. I'm in the process of setting up a studio for my Dad and chose the Steinberg Ci2+ and I'm pretty much blown away by the quality, plus the integration with Cubase 6 is phenomenal.

Worry about the other stuff first--I'd say the order in which you should invest in your chain is mics first, preamps second, and converters only after everything else is as good as you plan to get it. Remember that monitoring is a neglected part of the process that warrants an investment. If your monitors and room don't let you hear what's really going on, then you can't make very good use of your fancy signal chain.

I believe that control room treatment is just as important, if not more important, than monitor selection. If you're in a square or rectangle room, you'll need bass traps in every corner, diffusers over your mix station and most likely, generous usage of 705 panels on the ceilings and walls. Also, the Primacoustics Recoil Stabilizers are absolutely invaluable.

 

[SALVAGED]

I'd imagine that the way I have mine dialed in won't be of much help because most likely, I'm using a different guitar, strings, picks, speaker and speaker cabinet than you're using. But that said, good luck!

Thanks for the settings, Mike! I'll give it a shot and see what it does with my stuff.

 

[grbassist]

Great sounding clips. I really like the Angel.
I also agree that they sound a bit similar. That speaks directly to the player. I've played through a Mark IV, 5150, Engl, and now MTS and seem to always go for a similar tone. I think the best thing about the Randall stuff is you can find the exact tone you hear in your head more than any other single amp.

 

[rhequiem]

Incredible clips, as usual, Mike! Total pro quality and great chops

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

MikeP, another advantage to that Golden Mark preamp unless I have misunderstood, does it not also have a function as a DI?

 

[chuckmehh]

I think the MK22 is more 80's whereas the others are more modern. The Fisch, however, is the "worst" modern sound IMO because the bottom end isn't quite as defined as the others. For whatever reason, I like the clip of just the Angel the best.

That set, they're all recorded and played exceptionally well and I thoroughly enjoyed checking it out! Thanks dude!

 

[Mike P]

I think the MK22 is more 80's whereas the others are more modern. The Fisch, however, is the "worst" modern sound IMO because the bottom end isn't quite as defined as the others. For whatever reason, I like the clip of just the Angel the best.

That set, they're all recorded and played exceptionally well and I thoroughly enjoyed checking it out! Thanks dude!

Thanks for the kind words and I completely concur with your opinion.



The MK22 can nail so many early 80's tones with the Warmoth/Charvel clone that it's almost ridiculous. The Fish, in many ways, is more of an 80's module because it was designed and released before the "Grunge" era and isn't as tight on the bottom end (and that was with the added Tight switch!).

The Angel, to me, is absolutely amazing. My main amp, before getting into the MTS world last year, was an Engl and Anthony absolutely nailed the tone! I have a national commercial and now the Main Title (Theme Song) to "Stuntbusters" on the Speed Network and both feature the Angel as the only amp.

I LOVE it!

 

[Mike P]

MikeP, another advantage to that Golden Mark preamp unless I have misunderstood, does it not also have a function as a DI?

The DI on the GAP 73 is weak. It's best to use an active direct box before the DI input, as the signal is noisy without it.

 

[Mike P]

Thanks again to everyone for the kind words!

 

[blacksun]

Thought I'd revive or bump this thread since Mike P has been kind enough to keep his amazing clips up. My favourites are the SG Mk22 and the fisch, just amazing

 

[Oregon]

With mic preamps as well as condenser mics whether it has a transformer makes a big difference. (don't know if dynamic or ribbons do.)

I bought a Blue Mouse microphone with transformer as it brings out a great vocal mid range. But I don't always want the added coloration, so I have other options (used to work MI and took advantage of the discount.)

The preamps really have an impact as well - and there are lots of options (the Golden Age is a great value.) Some focus on delivering cleanly what's being heard (like Grace) while others add various coloration based on the transformer type and design (Jensen etc.)

Some tones for me were best served with SM57's and the Sm58 has a slight but noticeable upper frequency - 57 tops out around 15k and the 58 at 16k. While it's mainly a vocal mic vs. instrument it's quite good for a little more clean/lighter distortion snap.

To get the most of a mic trying different placement can give tremendous versatility to your sound (just remember or place some tape where you like it.)

Be careful here, it's another massive area for G.A.S...

I sure enjoy Mike P's snippets. Here in particular the Angel and Fisch.