To goop or not to goop, that is the question!

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I have receive two modules that were clearly reverse engineered. I would personally rather get a module with goop that works correct rather than ones that are messed with. I fixed them myself, but if I didn't know what to do I would have had to deal with sending it to get fixed.
I prefer goop free but it is what it is.
 
Another option is to only buy modules from trusted sources. If there were no such thing as goop, I doubt I would have any problems because I would not buy something from someone that I didn't trust as legit. I've owned probably 20+ modules with no goop. Never had any issues with any of them.
 
I think the goop is a great idea. I love seeing Robs clean and intensive work as much as anybody but I definately think he needs to protect his ideas. If it doesn't effect my tone it doesn't effect me.

Marshall and Fender don't need the goop because their innards aren't constantly exposed like a mts preamp.
 
Im with you dave... you dont see that part of module enough to fall in love with its circuit board... and if you are looking at the board you are either bored and dumb or trying to rip off robs hard work!
-mp-
 
Rather than looking at it as a bad thing, I think maybe it should be looked at as protecting the investment. This way, on the used market, you'll know you're getting what Rob made. Not what Rob made and someone tried to copy, alter or tamper with. Also, after extensive conversation with Rob, the dual channel modules are extremely delicate and the goop adds some ruggedness to the board. Sure, it's not pretty, but let's put some focus on tone - not fancy faceplates and pretty circuit boards.
 
Right on the money drew.. and to Marco.. just got a little excited after hearing all the people bitching about the goo, I think drew hit it right on the nose!
-mp-
 
Well, I've had a couple of the JF modules and Rob does do good work and offers great customer service. However, I will likely not buy another one of his modules if it's going to be covered with goop and that fact would have never been disclosed if it wasn't for this thread. It turns out that there are some others that don't like it either--just like others have said so in this thread. I'm sure there are others still that will never run across this thread or bother to share their view. That being said, it seems that Rob is doing just fine and his business will continue to thrive.

I just do not prefer that be done to my models (they are MY modules/property) and I may have other plans for them down the road if I want to make further mods or even return it to stock. But my MAIN POINT is that everyone is entitled to their opinion. I stand by all of the previous statements I have given as reasons earlier in this thread which are good, solid reasons (none of which had nothing to do with "being bored" or "falling in love with a circuit board;" or any other comment with the purpose of disrespecting another's opinion or position on the issue).

The bottom line: It's a free country. If you like it and think it's fine, good for you. Knock yourself out. Just don't knock others for not agreeing with you. You have your own preferences and reasons and you are free to act accordingly. Your view is no more valid or legitimate than anyone else's view.
 
I do understand the disappointment in the goop. Trust me, when I got my first batch of gooped boards, I was bummed. Let me be clear, the first weren't Jaded Faith modules either. I have since come around to the goop and understand why it's there. Also, if I ever decide to sell, the secondhand buyer will know he's getting what was intended to be there.

You will paint yourself into a very small corner if you're unwilling to accept "the goop" at this stage of the modular game.
 
Caine said:
The bottom line: It's a free country. If you like it and think it's fine, good for you. Knock yourself out. Just don't knock others for not agreeing with you. You have your own preferences and reasons and you are free to act accordingly. Your view is no more valid or legitimate than anyone else's view.

I understand your view and totally accept it. I was not knocking your view, I was simply providing a counterpoint.
 
At the Egnater Amp class I had a laugh with Rob and Drew about the goop.

I had posted a "snarky" comment in Bruce's thread about "What makes a great mod" and said something like "make sure it's covered in goop to hide the values because nobody has ever thought of this circuit before and it must remain a secret".

Well, I had a few of Rob's mods prior to the goop era but the next batch I got from Rob (after my comment) were completely covered in goop.
I really thought he had done that just because of the comment I made in that thread! I was afraid to ask until we had a few beers.

For those that don't like the black goop... it could be worse... he could be covering them in white goop... :shock:
 
MarcoR said:
At the Egnater Amp class I had a laugh with Rob and Drew about the goop.

I had posted a "snarky" comment in Bruce's thread about "What makes a great mod" and said something like "make sure it's covered in goop to hide the values because nobody has ever thought of this circuit before and it must remain a secret".

Well, I had a few of Rob's mods prior to the goop era but the next batch I got from Rob (after my comment) were completely covered in goop.
I really thought he had done that just because of the comment I made in that thread! I was afraid to ask until we had a few beers.

For those that don't like the black goop... it could be worse... he could be covering them in white goop... :shock:

That was a very funny, yet somewhat awkward, conversation at dinner. :lol:
 
Not a goop fan....i tinker...i disclose all tinkering before sales...yes, there are those who may reverse engineer. But destroying a module for any future changes sucks. Especially when modders upgrades down the line, what happens then?
 
I've returned a few gooped mods for upgrades.....haven had a problem, and honestly never even thought about it. Maybe that's a good thing.
 
Mattfig said:
Not a goop fan....i tinker...i disclose all tinkering before sales...yes, there are those who may reverse engineer. But destroying a module for any future changes sucks. Especially when modders upgrades down the line, what happens then?

+1
 
I think the Urban Dictionary needs a new submission to bring it up to date:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=goop

For example, the sentence for definition number 2 reads:

Ted made Mary goop like never before last night, she gooped so much that she soaked through the sheets.

I'm pretty sure that must be some other type of goop. Or is it? :?
 
There's absolutely nothing wrong with anyone's feelings one way or the other. I completely understand and validate both sides of the fence here. It's a necessary evil unfortunately that's here to stay. It protects myself, my customers and those buying on the used market. The risk of losing potential future business due to tampered used modules misrepresenting my own work is reason enough for me.
 
Understood, but then again, why doesn't everyone else do it? Why would anyone buy ANY used amplifiers or effects pedals since any of them could be tampered with or user modded? Why, all of a sudden, after decades of people making and selling gear and people buying used gear, is there a need for goop? Why doesn't Bruce Egnater goop his modules, which would prevent people from stealing "his" ideas and tampering with them (which people obviously do)?

What is odd about this whole thing is that the MTS concept is largely based on knocking off other companies' stuff in the first place and so we have a whole business model that is based on trying to copy the ideas of others in some form or another. The way truly legitimate intellectual property is protected is via patents and the judicial system, not by covering things up with black goop. One could even argue that it's a lacking of transparency, covering up something that maybe is not really one's own ideas (not saying that is what is happening, just making a point). Why doesn't a Dyson vacuum cleaner have goop inside it? Because if it's truly unique intellectual property, it is protected via patents. Yes, Dyson is a big corporation now, but at one time, Dyson was just a guy tinkering in his basement or garage and, through his own ideas and the patent system, he grew into a major force within the vacuum cleaner market.

Whether it's a major company like Marshall or Fender or one of the many newer, smaller guys out there building amps and effects pedals, everything and everyone is susceptible.

Similar to the MTS concept but in the form of a pedal is the Wampler Black 65.
http://www.wamplerpedals.com/heritage/black-65.html

The Black 65 is intended emulate the sound of a vintage Fender amp. While clearly trying to benefit from the work of Leo Fender, the owner of the company developed the pedal himself, but there is no black goop inside it. Why not? Heck, someone could put their own black goop on a module to give the impression that it's a JF mod when it's not. I'm sure that "black goop" is not some form of "rocket science" and someone out there will be able to figure out how to remove and work around the goop and then re-goop. Perhaps that person will start a "how to" thread on some website. Their are never any true assurances for anyone.

If Leo Fender had put goop inside the Fender Bassman, then perhaps today, there would be no Marshall Amplifier company (since Marshall reverse engineered the Bassman in making the JTM).
 

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