I have a Creation Audio Labs Holy Fire pedal. I was using a Maxon OD 808 before hand. The Holy Fire is a hot rodded version of a Tubescreamer. I was using it with a 6505+. I'm now using an RM100 with a Dragon Module. Where would you suggest putting it? In front of the amp? Or in the loop?
Tube Screamer question...
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m0jo
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Any type of drive or boost should allways go *before* the preamp, so never in the loop.
These pedals are made to push your pre-amp further, so putting it behind is a bit useless.
The exception to this rule is a clean boost: if you want to boost your volume (so not your gain) you can put a clean boost in the loop.
This is for the simple reason that before the preamp it just creates more distortion, behind the preamp is will just boost the volume, which is what you want in that situation.
But any dirt box should allways go between guitar and input.
These pedals are made to push your pre-amp further, so putting it behind is a bit useless.
The exception to this rule is a clean boost: if you want to boost your volume (so not your gain) you can put a clean boost in the loop.
This is for the simple reason that before the preamp it just creates more distortion, behind the preamp is will just boost the volume, which is what you want in that situation.
But any dirt box should allways go between guitar and input.
Hmmm.... My ideas are a little different, but still overdrives in front.
My opinion is that sound altering effects have to be in front of the pre-amp, and sound adding in the loop. Overdrives alter the sound with more gain, Wahs change the tone, Whammys and Octavers the pitch, so all in front of the amp. Chorus, Delay, Reverb add to the sound and you decide how much you let through (mix). So they go into the loop. The exception is a clean boost, though that can still be used to boost a clean sound so that it overdrives the Power amp... Clean boost is in the loop.
My opinion is that sound altering effects have to be in front of the pre-amp, and sound adding in the loop. Overdrives alter the sound with more gain, Wahs change the tone, Whammys and Octavers the pitch, so all in front of the amp. Chorus, Delay, Reverb add to the sound and you decide how much you let through (mix). So they go into the loop. The exception is a clean boost, though that can still be used to boost a clean sound so that it overdrives the Power amp... Clean boost is in the loop.
m0jo
Well-known member
Nigel T. said:
I disagree with that.
It might be your taste to put the flanger, chorus and phaser in the loop, that's fine.
But they will work fine before the preamp, and actually that's where I prefer my chorus at most times.
But drive ... it does not work in the loop whatsoever.
BTW: the clean boost technically doesn't alter the tone, so that should be in the loop in your pov.
Pitch shifters sometimes also work better in the loop..
Mattfig
Well-known member
Screamer's gotta go in front on the preamp....Otherwise there is no positive benefit in using one...
I appreciate all the replies. I figured it needed to be in front. The guy who sold me the pedal from C.A.L said the Randalls didnt have too much head room and to try it in the loop is why I was asking. The last MTS set up I had was an RM4 and RT2/50. But it was a friend's rig I was borrowing till my old peavey suff came in. So it was just using what he had.
Thanks!
Thanks!
Julia
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Don't have much headroom? ROTFLMAO.
crankyrayhanky
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tone maxed? bzzzz
crankyrayhanky said:
I love it man! That's how I always run my OD. Granted, it's not a tubescreamer, but I don't find it to be buzzy at all. I posted a clip of two recordings of mine (albeit with a crap digital camera so the treble is even further emphasized) yesterday; check it out.
That's what I said as well.m0jo said:
My Setup is as follows:
guitar > PolyTune > TS-808 > Wah > Whammy > Amp
Loop --> Volume pedal > TC Electronic Nova System that is used for Delay, Reverb, Chorus, Flanger, Clean boost, etc. > Return
And after the amp a TalkBox
m0jo
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I know, I was pointing out that it was not an exeption like you said it was.Nigel T. said:
GtrGeorge!
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There are dozens of great songs with pedals being used in the "wrong place in the signal chain". So much that..in truth there is no right way and no wrong way. Its down to taste.
This is a creative thing, remember?
One creative example is Blue Oyster Cults old song "Burning for you". The rhythym guitar is clean and is feed into reverb..which is gating at certain times..and not at others. !!! And it sounds really cool.
Trevor Rabin (ex-Yes)has done some cool stuff with putting an acoustic guitar thru a fuzzbox.
And The Edge has done all of this and more.
Its GREAT!
GtrGeorge
This is a creative thing, remember?
One creative example is Blue Oyster Cults old song "Burning for you". The rhythym guitar is clean and is feed into reverb..which is gating at certain times..and not at others. !!! And it sounds really cool.
Trevor Rabin (ex-Yes)has done some cool stuff with putting an acoustic guitar thru a fuzzbox.
And The Edge has done all of this and more.
Its GREAT!
GtrGeorge
I think we are discussing two different thingas in this one sentence.m0jo said:
- A Clean Boost alters the sound as it boosts the output level, therefore it should be in front. but!...
- it is the one exception as it has no use in front of the amp.
Delays and such take one signal, copy that and manipulate it. Then the mix will add the new sound to the original and it will travel on. Because it adds you want all the sound changes done before that. A Delay followed by Overdrive... Unless you want to overdrive the delayed sound separately there is no use to it.
But as GtrGeorge saidthere are no real rules. If it works for you, it works. Period. I only gave my philosophy on effects. Many people put a Wah after the Overdrive, many people put it in front of the Overdrive. What is the good way? The most important thing is the sound and what you think of it.
Peace out.
VitaminG
Well-known member
Nigel T. said:
that is exactly where I use mine. It has served two purposes with my rig - to provide a volume boost when switching to single coils; and to slam the front end of a drive channel for a tighter, more focussed sound. I have found it very useful in front of my amp
Goes to show that there is absolutely no "true law" about itVitaminG said:
Using a boost to overcome the difference between single coil and humbucker... I never thought of that. All my "stage guitars" use EMG pickups and they have roughly the same output level so switching between single coil and humbucker doesn't affect me at all. I use the boost as a means to boost the sound of a clean solo (overdriven solos are done on the overdrive channel with the Tube Screamer). On my Randalls I work differently. There I use the Tube Screamer as solo boost and the Boost on my Nova System as clean boost.
m0jo
Well-known member
VitaminG said:
Yep, definitly.
I now use my 4th channel as lead channel.
So my boost is now just for slamming the pre into next week.
It is a different effect than an overdrive, so it definitly has use.
What I don't like about your idea's Nigel T. is that you say "all these should be here because .." which completely misses the point that different effects do different things.
Some work in front, some only in the loop, a lot work well in both but will yield different results.
Either way, problem solved
There are millions of these discussions on the web..
a. I decided to leave it be, and you come back at me... Thanksm0jo said:
b. I didn't know there were problems with venting different opinions.
c. Inferring that I don't know that different effects do different things is a bit low as I already explained exactly where I put what effect based on what it does.
You can answer on this if you want, but I will ignore this part of the thread.
Once again (and final): Peace Out.
m0jo
Well-known member
Hey man, it wasn't meant agressively at all, I just wanted to point out why I disagreed with you on that, nothing more.Nigel T. said:
No anger intended whatsoever. Sorry if it looked that way.
But anyway, no offence man, but if you say you're done with it does not mean that I am suddenly not allowed to clarify my point.
I think you're being a bit too long-toed on that. As I said I wasn't attacking you at all, just trying to tell you my side of it.
EDIT:
On the effects part: you did lump in time-based modulation with delays .. they are simply not the same catagory, even if there is similar technique behind it.
That's really all I was talking about... :?
