Twinface finally arrived! Detailed comparision :(

[Tbag]

Now i'm not trying to diss on this module...

But for quite sometime this afternoon I have been comparing this module to my STOCK Blackface.

My blackface is loaded with a tungsol in V1 and a JJ 803s in V2.

The new twinface was loaded with two ruby ACG's or whatever they are (12AX7's)

PLEASE NOTE: AFTER ALL THIS BELOW, I DID CHANGE IN THE V1 IN THE TWINFACE TO A TUNG-SOL, WITH A SOMEWHAT IMPROVEMENT, BUT STILL NOT HUGE


The blackface clean on the twinface had little bottom end, and was even more scooped with the mids maxed compared to my stock blackface....interesting.

The stock module was bigger, more tingly/sparkly in the top end etc.

I flicked the switch to "Deluxe Mode", much better sound (also keep the mojo switch on always, i have no idea what it does other than boost the volume massivley, but it needs it to keep up with the volume of all other modules)

The "Deluxe Mode" had a more pronounced mid character in comparison, which i liked, also more definition in the mids aswell, but the top end was different, and i'm not sure if i liked it, but the tops almost sounded a tad more compressed. I was a bit pissed by here...

Then I engaged "Pushed Mode", this was great on the bridge pickup (and mind you up till now i was mostly looking for a gorgeous clean sound on neck pickup, on a PRS CE22, not with stock pickups either, so a very decent sounding guitar) anyways, the gain turned up till a bit over half way and it just freakin rocked, really sweet sound, like far out, freakin sweet twangy rock out sound, was amazed.........

.......but i'm after a clean module a really clean sparkly full thick articulate clean module......

I can't help but think that my Stock Blackface is definatley up there with it...So (in australian currency) $120 for a Stock blackface second hand on ebay, or $400+ for a Modded module from Salvation Mods.

Don't get me wrong, the improvement was there, but i just couldn't justify the price difference? Is there something i'm doing wrong? I would like to hope I am because i want this thing to kinda work.

I really liked the mids/definition of the Twinface, but the tops sounded more thin and compressed, and the bottom end wasn't as big around it, or hugging it like the stock one did.

The stock module couldn't get the mids that i could when the Twinface was in Deluxe mode, but it was very minimal none the less.



Please anyones thoughts,opinions, etc


I did think about a Loneclean but was told it breaks up even earlier than the Twinface, which was another thing about the preamp, the Twinface broke up A LOT earlier than the stock module.


Once again, i'm absolutely not dissing on this module, just comparing in my eyes/ears opinion, and having hopefully a wrong start off with this module...

 

[Mattfig]

I love my Twinface...But it's the tone I was looking for...Clean and chimey....Your best bet would be to try a few tubes out if you can...The beauty of it is that if you decide you don't want it- it'll probably go quick outta the classifieds...

I also have my own Clean that I've built over the last several months that provides a fatter and warmer response than Twinface...But loses the Fender charm a bit as well...

Cleans should be easy to dial in and articulate...If you've spent some time with the Twinface and don't like it- just move on...The Loneclean is similar to Twinface- I saw you mentioned that...But the thick switch may be just what you seek...???...Go with your instincts...You could probably successfully flip the TF for a LC...

 

[Nightdare]

A tubeswap (or 4) turned my stock SL+ for a muddy undefined mess, to a tight present gainer

it pays to experiment

also don't overlook V1 in the amp (it may even be the most important)

 

[audiomidijace]

I had a similar experience with the Lone Clean. Contact Kyle at Jaded Faith and get his modified Tweed! It's the best clean sound for MTS that I've heard.

 

[Disciple]

Contact Kyle at Jaded Faith

Rob

 

[Mike P]

Now i'm not trying to diss on this module...

With all due respect, it's very clear from your description that you've never had any experience with a true 1965 or earlier (Pre-CBS) Fender Twin Blackface amp.

The "Blackface" is an awesome sounding amp that breaks up very early. It wasn't a "clean" amp and Randall, once again, got their module wrong, which is nothing new because all of their modules are so off the mark of what they claim that it's truly laughable. Line 6 Pods are more accurate.

Randall's "Blackface" has more in common with a '77 silver grill Fender Twin. Those amps stayed cleaned all the way to 10, even with a master volume. They were also completely toneless and fairly undesirable.

The LoneClean doesn't break up "more quickly" in the Boogie mode, but it does break up more quickly in the Tweed (Bassman) and Dumble modes because those amps break up quickly.

IMHO, if you have to search for tube after tube to get the sound you're looking for (not to mention, spending bank on NOS tubes or $50 preamp tubes), you're either using the wrong module or the design is awful.

 

[m0jo]

Crazy question: with what poweramp are you running the TF?

For me it really works in Deluxe mode with 6L6's in the RT2/50.

That said when I had JJ's in there they really sucked the life out of the highs.
Same thing on the clean channel of my Laney, which is beautiful with any other tubes.
So in short: it doesn't make it a bad amp/module if you happen to have the wrong tubes in there, they make a lot of difference..
I run it with 2 Tung Sols in there

Did you only change the V1 or also the V2?

Also: with my guitars which have medium to hot pickups I don't think it breaks up all that early.
It does break up at some point, but that's what you get when you try to get this type of clean tone (like Mike says, cleaner amps tend to sound less good, because that liiiitle bit of compression/overdrive makes it a sweet tone).
Otherwise it would just be sterile, no matter how fat you would EQ and voice it.

Now my disclaimer: I'm not trying to diss you, just offering my experience with it.

 

[Mike P]

That said when I had JJ's in there they really sucked the life out of the highs..

I absolutely concur: JJ tubes, IMO, are worthless trash, regardless of the amp or preamp. They have no top or bottom and the mids are ugly.

I prefer either the Ruby Tubes or the ARS 12ax7's, although the EH, Tung Sol and Mullard reissues are good as well but, IMHO, not worth the price difference in the US.

 

[Mattfig]

Agreed on JJ's although they last longer than any tube I've tested...With one excpetion, Ruby tubes....They read strong forever..Awesome....

 

[crankyrayhanky]

Not every module is for everyone; forget the tube search and flip the piece. I LOVE Salvation modules, but when I had a Loneclean I did not bond with it all- so off it went. 99% seem to love his clean mods, but that doesn't mean you will

 

[Whoopysnorp]

That said when I had JJ's in there they really sucked the life out of the highs..

I absolutely concur: JJ tubes, IMO, are worthless trash, regardless of the amp or preamp. They have no top or bottom and the mids are ugly.

I prefer either the Ruby Tubes or the ARS 12ax7's, although the EH, Tung Sol and Mullard reissues are good as well but, IMHO, not worth the price difference in the US.

They have their place. They really helped to tame the sizzle in my Mark III.

 

[Mike P]

They have their place. They really helped to tame the sizzle in my Mark III.

Yeah Dude, I'm not so sure about that.

If a JJ tube solved your problem, then I'd venture to guess that the problem lie elsewhere, whether it's strings, pickups, strings, nut, cabinet or speaker selection.

That's like stating that a $10 dollar pickup solved your tone issue.

 

[salvation]

Now i'm not trying to diss on this module...

But for quite sometime this afternoon I have been comparing this module to my STOCK Blackface.

My blackface is loaded with a tungsol in V1 and a JJ 803s in V2.

The new twinface was loaded with two ruby ACG's or whatever they are (12AX7's)

PLEASE NOTE: AFTER ALL THIS BELOW, I DID CHANGE IN THE V1 IN THE TWINFACE TO A TUNG-SOL, WITH A SOMEWHAT IMPROVEMENT, BUT STILL NOT HUGE


The blackface clean on the twinface had little bottom end, and was even more scooped with the mids maxed compared to my stock blackface....interesting.

The stock module was bigger, more tingly/sparkly in the top end etc.

I flicked the switch to "Deluxe Mode", much better sound (also keep the mojo switch on always, i have no idea what it does other than boost the volume massivley, but it needs it to keep up with the volume of all other modules)

The "Deluxe Mode" had a more pronounced mid character in comparison, which i liked, also more definition in the mids aswell, but the top end was different, and i'm not sure if i liked it, but the tops almost sounded a tad more compressed. I was a bit pissed by here...

Then I engaged "Pushed Mode", this was great on the bridge pickup (and mind you up till now i was mostly looking for a gorgeous clean sound on neck pickup, on a PRS CE22, not with stock pickups either, so a very decent sounding guitar) anyways, the gain turned up till a bit over half way and it just freakin rocked, really sweet sound, like far out, freakin sweet twangy rock out sound, was amazed.........

.......but i'm after a clean module a really clean sparkly full thick articulate clean module......

I can't help but think that my Stock Blackface is definatley up there with it...So (in australian currency) $120 for a Stock blackface second hand on ebay, or $400+ for a Modded module from Salvation Mods.

Don't get me wrong, the improvement was there, but i just couldn't justify the price difference? Is there something i'm doing wrong? I would like to hope I am because i want this thing to kinda work.

I really liked the mids/definition of the Twinface, but the tops sounded more thin and compressed, and the bottom end wasn't as big around it, or hugging it like the stock one did.

The stock module couldn't get the mids that i could when the Twinface was in Deluxe mode, but it was very minimal none the less.



Please anyones thoughts,opinions, etc


I did think about a Loneclean but was told it breaks up even earlier than the Twinface, which was another thing about the preamp, the Twinface broke up A LOT earlier than the stock module.


Once again, i'm absolutely not dissing on this module, just comparing in my eyes/ears opinion, and having hopefully a wrong start off with this module...

Well. No one gear is good for everyone.
What is very good for one person may be useless for the other person and vice versa.
Mojo switch changes gain and overall vomule of the module.
Mojo OFF (up) mode is designed for stronger pickups.
If your main criterium is volume of the module, then this switch will be proabably always on. The module will have more volume and earlier break up then.
Dynamic and compression of Twinface is different than on stock randall modules.
edit: There is no reason to do midification on module, to sound the same as stock one.

People are different and have different tastes.
Twinface or maybe all Salvation mods are probably not your cup of tea.

I never received so negative feedback, like this your post.
If you are dissapointed with Twinface and if you think it does not worth the money, then you can return it to me.
I will send all your money back.

Peace

Anthony

 

[Jaded Faith]

Contact Kyle at Jaded Faith

Rob

You read my mind! In all fairness, Kyle did do the current website. :lol:

 

[Whoopysnorp]

They have their place. They really helped to tame the sizzle in my Mark III.

Yeah Dude, I'm not so sure about that.

If a JJ tube solved your problem, then I'd venture to guess that the problem lie elsewhere, whether it's strings, pickups, strings, nut, cabinet or speaker selection.

That's like stating that a $10 dollar pickup solved your tone issue.

Uh, ok...well, as the person who actually played the amp before and after the tube swaps, I am satisfied with the decision I made.

 

[Tbag]

Anthony,

I am interested in all yours modules, and i am very sorry if this comparison came off as negative and the first time someone has been honest about a module.

I am fine tuning the module and starting to enjoy it more, i just keep the mojo switch off so i have more headroom.

I am using 6L6's on the RT2/50. I will also be putting a different neck pickup in my PRS, at the moment i have a seymour duncan Pearly Gates and i will be putting my trusty Jazz2 in there to see if it opens up a bit more.

I suppose i just got impatient and wanted to plug and play.


If there is anything i have been noticing massively, is that the stock one is beginning to sound more flabby and dull in the mids and not as open.

Once again i apologize for any upset i may have caused.

 

[Nightdare]

They have their place. They really helped to tame the sizzle in my Mark III.

Yeah Dude, I'm not so sure about that.

If a JJ tube solved your problem, then I'd venture to guess that the problem lie elsewhere, whether it's strings, pickups, strings, nut, cabinet or speaker selection.

That's like stating that a $10 dollar pickup solved your tone issue.

Even a difference in picks can solve a 'tone issue'

I'm with Whoopysnorp on this one, overly bright (piercing) preamps can benefit alot with JJ's
JJ's may not be the most 'sparkliest' or dynamic tubes, they still are more musical than most Sovteks

 

[Mike P]

Even a difference in picks can solve a 'tone issue'

Which was exactly my point: There a tons of factors involved and if resorting to crap tubes solves a "tone" issue, there's more to the issue than meets the eye.

 

[Tbag]

JJ's aren't crap, they're are very harmonically rich in content, and are very good for some amps, the tops sparkle in a different frequency to say a tungsol, my old DSL100 with EH loved them.

My housemates Mesa Mark 5 loves them, but not so much in his 5150. He also has a Framus Dragon, which is kind of bright, but lacks gain, so the JJ's help in a perfect way. JJ's might seem dull or bad, but like a tube guru i used to go to told me..."i buy a batch, and probably throw out around 40% of them because they are bad"

Which is where i find most people probably have bad experiences with them, they're production is terrible, but when you have a handful of good ones, far out they are sweeeeeet! All Mesa tubes are stock with JJ's now relabled as Mesa's. Ruby have adopted the JJ 12AX7 and relabled it too. Go figure...

 

[Mattfig]

I agree with both sides on this...Usually I dislike JJs too...But I gotta say, they last a long time and DO have their place in certain amps or amp components...If I have to use a JJ to calm down a treble-y module, I try to use JJ ECC803S as they sound a little less compressed and dark as standard JJs...Usually a last resort though...But JJs have their place just like any other tube...Could a different tube provide a better response? Of course, does it have to? Personal opinion...