Recto vs Grail

MTS module area including module modifications

Moderators: guitarguy510, ned

MetalZ
RM20
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 7:07 am
Location: San Antonio,Texas

Recto vs Grail

Post by MetalZ » Fri Apr 27, 2007 10:34 pm

I have a recto mod where r1,r2,r3, are already 150 ohms and tried the c3 cap change. In the Grail topic it looks like these are the only items that differ from a Grail mod. Can this be true? GL's name and a new face plate and c3 cap. Oh yeah, 50-100 bucks more depending where you shop. Please, anyone with both mods do a comparison and let us know. Mine came with ruby's (used) and I switched to tung sol's. It seems a little gainyer now. M

khingpynn
Lynch Box
Posts: 843
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:11 am
Location: Alberta Canada
Contact:

Post by khingpynn » Sat Apr 28, 2007 7:56 pm

I've got the ( stock ) Grail and Recto and I find the Grail to have more clarity and a smoother clip... still aggressive tho... overal I find the Grail has a large wide spectrum and the Recto sounds thin in comparison... Not that its a bad thing because I find the Recto has it's place and sounds overal pretty good.
I run the stock jj as I have tried several N.O.S. Sylvania, RCA, Ratheon, Tung Sol, and GE... plus several modern tubes such as EH, Sovtek, Groove Tube and I find the jj to be of good quality and tone that suites this preamp. The recto has EH tubes.

Khing

MetalZ
RM20
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 7:07 am
Location: San Antonio,Texas

Thanks for the quick response

Post by MetalZ » Sun Apr 29, 2007 8:15 pm

Is the difference between your recto and grail modules just the C3 cap value? or.... is there some other voodoo going on? My recto has mostly the rectangular blue caps and the grail pic has the orange? fat caps. M

maximus1
Lynch Box
Posts: 959
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2007 10:22 pm

recto

Post by maximus1 » Mon Apr 30, 2007 4:56 pm

i can't get the recto to sound very good at all, it just seems to have an emptiness to it and the bass is flat and flubby, if you turn the gain down its not a bad clean type tone not bad for leads but for all out heaviness it doesn't do it for me

SacredGroove
Lynch Box
Posts: 1532
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:18 pm
Location: St. Clair Shores, MI

Re: Recto vs Grail

Post by SacredGroove » Mon May 07, 2007 7:43 pm

MetalZ wrote:I have a recto mod where r1,r2,r3, are already 150 ohms and tried the c3 cap change. In the Grail topic it looks like these are the only items that differ from a Grail mod. Can this be true?
I'd like to know this, too. I have a Recto just dying to be a Grail.

Also, has anyone had any succes ordering MTS replacement parts from Randall, such as, faceplates, knobs, etc.?

Scott

Lonerock
RM50
Posts: 57
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 6:37 am
Location: France

Post by Lonerock » Fri May 11, 2007 6:38 am

Does it mean that Moded Rectified Module = Grail Module???

TheAbomb12
RM100
Posts: 278
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:00 pm
Location: Bonita, CA

Post by TheAbomb12 » Fri May 11, 2007 7:48 am

no. Not at all.
ESP/LTD EC-1000
Ibanez RGT42DXFM (Seymour Duncan Blackouts)
Maxon OD808
TC Electronics G-major
Framus Cobra V2
Cobra 4x12 Slant Cabinet
Hughes and Kettner CC412B (Greenbacks)

NuSkoolTone
RM100
Posts: 152
Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 12:25 pm
Location: Poughkeepsie, NY

Post by NuSkoolTone » Fri May 11, 2007 8:02 am

TheAbomb12 wrote:no. Not at all.
Hi, could you qualify this statement with an explanation?

Outside of the faceplate, I can't see how it's not considering a group of us matched it up part for part not too long ago.
This is where you write stuff no one reads anyway.

TheAbomb12
RM100
Posts: 278
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:00 pm
Location: Bonita, CA

Post by TheAbomb12 » Fri May 11, 2007 8:12 am

well, its true that almost all of the modules feature VERY similar layouts and construction; The Recto and Grail are similar in the same way all Randall MTS mods are similar. But different enough for it to be difficult for the layperson to MOD a Recto to Grail specs.

Although, I suppose it is technically possible- No one so far has done it. The Best I've heard anyone do is the Recto Capacitor mods.
ESP/LTD EC-1000
Ibanez RGT42DXFM (Seymour Duncan Blackouts)
Maxon OD808
TC Electronics G-major
Framus Cobra V2
Cobra 4x12 Slant Cabinet
Hughes and Kettner CC412B (Greenbacks)

Lonerock
RM50
Posts: 57
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 6:37 am
Location: France

Post by Lonerock » Fri May 11, 2007 8:45 am

So what's sound like the closest to a Dual rectifier Ch3 Modern mode ?
The Grail or Rectifier with moded capacitor?

and what is the difference between Recto, Rectified, Treadplate modules?

I'm a newbee to MTS and I plan to try an RM4 preamp, I really need the Closest rectifier like sound.

TheAbomb12
RM100
Posts: 278
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:00 pm
Location: Bonita, CA

Post by TheAbomb12 » Fri May 11, 2007 9:39 am

Recto, Rectified, Treadplate are all the same module with different names. Most people feel that the distortion is flubby and inarticulate (Not to mention doesn't sound very much like a Dual Rec) . The Capacitor Mod helps fix this a little- but the base tone is still the same.

The Grail sounds the most like a Mesa Boogie Dual Rec from the 90's and is hands down, much superior to the Recto.


If you REALLY want some good tone- I would also Suggest getting the Egnater E-Rect Module; however they cost twice as much as Randall Modules.
ESP/LTD EC-1000
Ibanez RGT42DXFM (Seymour Duncan Blackouts)
Maxon OD808
TC Electronics G-major
Framus Cobra V2
Cobra 4x12 Slant Cabinet
Hughes and Kettner CC412B (Greenbacks)

NuSkoolTone
RM100
Posts: 152
Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 12:25 pm
Location: Poughkeepsie, NY

Post by NuSkoolTone » Fri May 11, 2007 1:24 pm

TheAbomb12 wrote:well, its true that almost all of the modules feature VERY similar layouts and construction; The Recto and Grail are similar in the same way all Randall MTS mods are similar. But different enough for it to be difficult for the layperson to MOD a Recto to Grail specs.

Although, I suppose it is technically possible- No one so far has done it. The Best I've heard anyone do is the Recto Capacitor mods.
Not similar, EXACT from what we discovered. Except C3, R1, R2, and R3? Every other component was EXACTLY the same!

Aside from pulling off the board and following traces to double check the order of components, could you be more specific as to what other differences there are? It sounds perhaps you know something we don't?
This is where you write stuff no one reads anyway.

TheAbomb12
RM100
Posts: 278
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:00 pm
Location: Bonita, CA

Post by TheAbomb12 » Fri May 11, 2007 1:59 pm

Unfortunately, I do not. I don't now the specifics as too how exactly the Recto is Different from the Grail; or what makes the Grail a better, more accurate reproduction of a Mesa Boogie. All I could tell you is, if all it took to change the recto mod to sound like the Grail was to switch out C3, R1, R2, and R3; not only would everyone do it, but they would be praising the Recto as one of the better modules POST soldering operation.
ESP/LTD EC-1000
Ibanez RGT42DXFM (Seymour Duncan Blackouts)
Maxon OD808
TC Electronics G-major
Framus Cobra V2
Cobra 4x12 Slant Cabinet
Hughes and Kettner CC412B (Greenbacks)

NuSkoolTone
RM100
Posts: 152
Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 12:25 pm
Location: Poughkeepsie, NY

Post by NuSkoolTone » Fri May 11, 2007 9:58 pm

TheAbomb12 wrote:All I could tell you is, if all it took to change the recto mod to sound like the Grail was to switch out C3, R1, R2, and R3; not only would everyone do it, but they would be praising the Recto as one of the better modules POST soldering operation.
Well that's kind of what we were thinking. Really we just need someone to take a modded recto and a grail side by side.

So far we're convinced it's a tweaked recto with a pretty faceplate.

Anyone have both to do the recto mod and compare?
This is where you write stuff no one reads anyway.

MetalZ
RM20
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 7:07 am
Location: San Antonio,Texas

Thanks all for chiming in but...

Post by MetalZ » Fri May 11, 2007 9:59 pm

TheAbomb12 wrote:Unfortunately, I do not. I don't now the specifics as too how exactly the Recto is Different from the Grail; or what makes the Grail a better, more accurate reproduction of a Mesa Boogie. All I could tell you is, if all it took to change the recto mod to sound like the Grail was to switch out C3, R1, R2, and R3; not only would everyone do it, but they would be praising the Recto as one of the better modules POST soldering operation.
Thanks all for chiming in but until hear is a few guitarist that a/b them side by side give their comments we'll never know. It seems as though from what nuskooltone described that the circuits are identical. If that is true , given that you can mod a recto to grail specs, are the tubes the same?.... or is it a matter of "i spent more so it must sound different,...or be better" , syndrome?
Hey I'm just curious,...I'm trying to see if there is some extra voodo going on with the grail and if it is worth the extra $$

Post Reply