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Volume Question (Frustration Content)
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crushabud
RM20


Joined: 11 Feb 2008
Posts: 47
Location: lost in florida

PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 6:06 pm    Post subject: Volume Question (Frustration Content) Reply with quote

...after perusing a number of guitar/amp forums, I've noticed a common thread (no pun intended): alot of players talk about the sound of their rigs at high volumes, how it affects tone, etc. Now, leaving aside gigs, where there's obviously going to be high(er) volumes involved, I have a question:

Where do all of these people live, where they can turn up a 100-watt guitar amp, without their neighbors going nuts, or police showing up, or family members trying to kill them, pets having nervous breakdowns, etc.???

So far, I've never lived ANYWHERE where that would be tolerated, and that includes private homes, not just apartments.... Confused

Let me know, people...
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VitaminG
Lynch Box


Joined: 15 Feb 2010
Posts: 555
Location: Toowoomba, Australia

PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't speak for everyone, but I find gigs are a great place to turn my amp up loud. Wink

We practice at my drummer's house too, on his farm. Only people to disturb, apart from his wife, are the horses & cows Smile
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Mister Joshua
RM100


Joined: 10 Jan 2010
Posts: 255
Location: San Antonio, TX

PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do believe that higher volumes sound better. I think it may be because the tubes are running hotter (which can be replicated with an attenuator) and also because the speakers are moving at a higher rate, which is how they are designed. But no you cannot crank it, even at gigs, unless you are Iron Maiden selling out sports arenas, so most of us never get to hear the glory of a fully cranked amp. But we can dream.

Peace, Joshua
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kc2eeb
Lynch Box


Joined: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 1071
Location: New Hampshire

PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 8:01 pm    Post subject: General Music Discussion. Reply with quote

I'm 62. When we used to rehearse in my mother's basement in '68,
the neighbor's would come out on their porches to listen, or come down
and sit on the basement steps. This was in Brooklyn NY. I played through
a Fender Dual Showman Reverb and later through a Marshall 100 watt
w/ 2 4x12 cabs. Yes, full up. Today, in Claremont NH, as long as the sun's out, I play my RM50 as loud as I want.
It seems to me that all the old hippies turned into crotchety pains who have
forgotten what they did "when they were young." Bullfeathers!
The sound of certain amps, with certain speakers simply create a sound
at higher volume that they can't produce at lower volume. It's a combination of all the parts, guitar, pups, amp, spkrs, etc. Don't give me an attenuator,
Line 6 crap, etc.
I'm NOT talking about loud for the sake of loudness. You can get the sound from as little as 5 watts.
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crushabud
RM20


Joined: 11 Feb 2008
Posts: 47
Location: lost in florida

PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gentlemen, great comments, agreed on amps sounding better turned up; but I'm not talking about maxing out volume. I mean turning your mv even halfway up, or at least past 3 (where the power section kicks in)...

Unless someone lives in a remote area, alone, I don't see how it's possible, without getting massive crap about it.
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Mattfig
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Joined: 22 Jun 2010
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Location: Hurtling through space on a wet rock.

PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I live in suburban Detroit and have neighbors on both sides of me as well as in front and behind....My house was built in 1954....My home studio is in the basement and we crank two full stacks and a 8x10 Ampeg bass cab and have live drums and ajor PA for vocals and no one complains- ever...Strangely, you can hardly hear it outside....Must be the thick mortar blocks...Don't get me wrong, you can hear it out there but unless a window is open, you can't really tell what you're hearing...

I like things quiet as well as cranked....My experience is that you have to compensate for both...You'll need much less processing loud and more quiet to get good results....The easiest way to control these variables is by dialing up or down on presence and density....Having a MIDI EQ is great as well as you can pre-program each module to have two or more separate settings for quiet and loud....That's what I do...
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Nightdare
Lynch Box


Joined: 21 Jan 2009
Posts: 715
Location: The Neverlands

PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I'm already terrorizing the block every morning when I leave for work on my (motor)bike Laughing

But little kids and old sourpusses on the block, so I'm running my rt2/50 at just around 9 o'clock
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Julia
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Joined: 15 Dec 2008
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Location: Near Seattle WA

PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is normal for 90% of the areas.

The human ear if you go by the Loudness Contour & Fletcher Munson curves hears things best at 85 dB.

At loud volumes when you crank up your amp, your speakers also start to break up and add distortion. Power tubes don't really matter until your master volume gets over noon along with your channel volume. Typically that's way too loud for most residential homes, and it will cause hearing damage.

So unless you want to go modeling with FRFR monitors, you might want to try a 212 cab that has speakers rated under 20W like the Celestion Heritage Greenbacks. I also know Ted Weber makes some 12" speakers that are rated at 15W and very early breakup. Of course you can't drive them hard, but in a residential home a 5W amp is very loud.

I ended up with the modeling + FRFR option.
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Shinozoku
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Joined: 17 Nov 2008
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Location: Bristol, VA

PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My bud Steve plays cranked in his basement where half of the house is underground and he can crank it while barely being able to hear what's going on from the yard between his house and hiss neighbors. The back yard is a different story however...
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VitaminG
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Joined: 15 Feb 2010
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Location: Toowoomba, Australia

PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the highest I'll run a 100W amp at home is probably around 3 - during band practice on a weekend afternoon. No complaints so far from the neighbours, but we don't do it late and we don't often practice at my house anyway. Feedback from those who have commented is that we sound pretty good Wink

The aforementioned drummer's farm is much better for practice because we can play loud for a 3 hour session.

For regular playing around the house (on the rare occasion I actually fire up a 100 watter at home), it won't get above 1-2.
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kc2eeb
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:36 pm    Post subject: General Misic Discussion Reply with quote

And now the critical question.......
Is everyone playing at low volume using pedals to get their tone?
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Julia
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Location: Near Seattle WA

PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On tube amps? When I play full out clean, no. When I want a blues breakup I use a pair of TS808s, so yes.

I've also used attenuators. It's kind of ridiculous. You spend $2000 on a 100W tube amp that doesn't sound good until you get the volume level around 100 dB so people set the levels up there and add an attenuator between the amp and cab (THD Hotplate, or if they've got money another $800 for the Ultimate) to get the volume back down to around 80 dB effectively listening to under 1 watt rms going to the speakers and complain that the attenuators color the tone.

So when I'm playing when I usually do after 10 pm I just run my modeler into my near field monitors.
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Mattfig
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We run our gear pretty hot and it's almost unbearable depending on where you stand....Our drummer is basically deaf and always wants more guitar and bass...So we happily do so but it's REALLY loud...Far too loud but it's always been that way...
I think a lot of it is how you use the space you're in and where you place and orient the direction of your speaker cabs and PA...
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Slashpepper
RM50


Joined: 15 Jul 2011
Posts: 71

PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We rent out a sound proofed practice room in town... ?10 an hour for a 6 piece band isn't at all bad. Good quality (i.e. ones that have a flat response) earplugs are a must though.
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kc2eeb
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Joined: 11 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 7:06 pm    Post subject: General Music Discussion. Reply with quote

In a sense, it's sad. We buy what we hope is a great amp to get "the sound"
and then, for a preciously small amount of time, get to play it the way it sounds best. One of the greatest tones and sounds I ever got to record was
playing through an original tweed Fender Bassman 4x10 amp I should have never sold, basically wide open, with two mikes, one at the speaker and one
in the room. 10 minutes to set up, 15 minutes to record. A sound engineer
that didn't make me turn it down. He captured the sound I created.
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