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SYN2 sag control, Syn2 vs M4
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MarcoR
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Capt_Tippy wrote:

So you're saying it's "fine", but do you use it? or still keep it turned full counterclockwise?


Yes, I would probably use it in some situations. If you want to soften the feel, it works but you don't want to hear it, just barely feel it if that makes sense. About 8:30 - 9:00 ar the most which is about where Shaun has it set in his videos. I also noticed in his videos, he backed it off a bit more in the latest compared to the first couple.
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chrismilne
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jaded Faith wrote:
The sag functionality in the Synergy hardware would best be described in guitarist speak like a compressor-type of effect. I find it effective. As to if it's something you will like or use is a personal decision.

One strong argument to grab the Synergy hardware is to take advantage of the cathode sensing tech when using Synergy modules. Obviously if you don't plan to buy the modules it's not as lucrative.

As Paul noted, my shop is now offering his dual channel upgrades. I am installing a kit right now in an RM100 and it works as advertised.


What's the price for the mod plus your installation (on an M4)?
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Jaded Faith
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

What's the price for the mod plus your installation (on an M4)?


Parts (same pricing as seen on Paul's site, plus the shipping costs to obtain it) plus 2 hours labor at shop rates ($65 an hour as of 2017).
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ricky
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with Marco on the SAG knob. I had a rehearsal last night and didn't realize that the SAG knob had been turned up accidentally. I was playing fairly loudly and all of a sudden it was like "WTF? What happened to my power?" I turned the knob back to zero and everything was fine. It works nicely with the knob set at maybe 1....not 1 o'clock, but 1. Anymore than that it can cut the power when you lean into it. Other than that feature, I love the SYN 2.
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JKD
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ricky wrote:
I agree with Marco on the SAG knob. I had a rehearsal last night and didn't realize that the SAG knob had been turned up accidentally. I was playing fairly loudly and all of a sudden it was like "WTF? What happened to my power?" I turned the knob back to zero and everything was fine. It works nicely with the knob set at maybe 1....not 1 o'clock, but 1. Anymore than that it can cut the power when you lean into it. Other than that feature, I love the SYN 2.


Haven't found any use for that control turned past 9 o'clock on the dial...and even 9 is high for many guitars...red light stays lit all the time and signal seems robbed of dynamics.. So let's say 8:30, which is probably about 1-2 if there were #s on the dial.
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Hernando04
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hated the Syn 2 the first day I had it until I realized that the sag control needs to be on zero or close to it. I also noticed the Syn 2 has one preamp tube versus the M4 which has 2 preamp tubes. Anyone know what's up with that? I don't notice a difference in the sound between the 2 but I'm using Salvation and Jaded Faith mods.
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bruce egnater
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The SAG knob is a Steve Fryette innovation. When you play an amp loud, the power supply "sags" (the voltage drops) and creates some of the compression/bloom that you hear, especially in lower power amps. Since the SYN1 and SYN2 are preamps, there is no power supply sag happening as in an actual amp. The sag circuit is dynamically sensing the signal level and causes the high voltage supply to "sag" as it would in an actual power amp. The trick is to adjust it to just soften the feel, like a poweramp compressing, as opposed to outright compressing it by setting it too high.
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withmittens
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the descriptions of what the Sag feature does sounds nothing like the feel gotten from a vintage non master amp, a larger one +40 watts. Although the words like compression and bloom are the right words to describe what happens with an amp like that there is no "loss" of power or falloff in dynamics. It's pretty much a power punch to the chest and an organic harmonic explosion that is lush and complex. It doesn't apply to high gain, either. gain has it's own compression thing. power tube distortion has this effect just by default. the old thing, it breathes.

I just don't think modern amps are designed to get this kind of thing. It's either or in my opinion. You either play a modern amp and all the tones associated with that or you play a vintage non master amp (or one designed like one) and you get that.

there is no denying the feel and sound of the old thing. my Gibson Mercury is a badass amp that blooms and sags like crazy but is not softened, limited or controlled in any way like a compressor. It's just a thing that can't be emulated, in my simple opinion.
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blacksun
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 5:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've got the sag control feature on my Fryette gp/di valvulator, probably the same thing as implemented on the syn2. Wish I could say I find it useful, but I don't, the only time I touch that knob is to turn it all the way down - in case it accidentally wasn't on set to zero. So in that regard I'd rather not have it at all.
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gtr31
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think if you are a classic rock 70s Plexi player the Sag may be useful to the feel you are accustomed to BUT a modern hi gain player SAG is not at all desirable in fact most Hi gain designs filter the hell out of the power section
to keep it sag free and tight
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