Its been a long journey with MTS...
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Totally agree with you Wesarvin but just because something has 2 preamp tubes in it (12ax7's) or whatever doesn't mean it's tube. I love my ADA MP-1 but if you run it through a SS power amp I think it sounds like ***. Well even sometimes through a tube power amp. LOL. I think the OP just wanted to let people know he was moving on. Maybe as a sales pitch maybe just one last nail he needed to add to his MTS coffin.
I see lots of guys moving through gear in search of that elusive tone. Hell I sure do it when if I practiced more I may be able to make that Gorilla amp posted earlier sound great. We all hear taste feel and see differently. I may love the XTC stock ( I do by BTW) and I see lots of others that hate it. If we all played AXE FX's music would get even more sterile and cheesy than it already is. I sure don't think somebody told Rembrandt if he painted with a certain brush his art would look like **** or not be as great as Picasso's.. It's art and meant to be expression. I'm going to leave my house now wearing my underwear (boxers) outside my pants. Hope I don't get beat up cuz someone doesn't like it....
Peace and Happy New Year all....
I see lots of guys moving through gear in search of that elusive tone. Hell I sure do it when if I practiced more I may be able to make that Gorilla amp posted earlier sound great. We all hear taste feel and see differently. I may love the XTC stock ( I do by BTW) and I see lots of others that hate it. If we all played AXE FX's music would get even more sterile and cheesy than it already is. I sure don't think somebody told Rembrandt if he painted with a certain brush his art would look like **** or not be as great as Picasso's.. It's art and meant to be expression. I'm going to leave my house now wearing my underwear (boxers) outside my pants. Hope I don't get beat up cuz someone doesn't like it....
Peace and Happy New Year all....
Mike P's clips always sound amazing so I'm sticking with what he says. 
...but ya, there is a certain feel to tubes that can't be reproduced digitally...and the Randall MTS can cover a lot of ground as a tube machine.
...but ya, there is a certain feel to tubes that can't be reproduced digitally...and the Randall MTS can cover a lot of ground as a tube machine.
Kapo_Polenton
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MikeP, what shows have you written music for? I'm interested..
Someone brought up Pete Thorn a while back. First off, he can make anything sound good. Second, while he does demo and endorse (loosely used) a lot of gear, while he likes pedals or the axe for certain gigs or jobs, I'm pretty sure given the choice, he goes right back to tubes. He's raving about his Suhr handwired 68 plexi clone with a variac switch right now. He also likes his PT100 a lot. So really, when put side by side, the tubes will continue to win out. Doesn't mean you can't get away with the axe and a poweramp but then as stated by a few people, you might as well mic a real tube amp. So then we are left with the $ factor. You just have to decide whether or not you want digital amps or modular amps. To me, the axe still has that digital fizz factor...they fizz differently than tube amps crunch. Interesting argument.. sounds almost like we are arguing tone one minute and then cost effectiveness the next. Personally, I'm done dropping huge amounts of cash on gear. I should honestly be happy with a few modules and boosts.
Someone brought up Pete Thorn a while back. First off, he can make anything sound good. Second, while he does demo and endorse (loosely used) a lot of gear, while he likes pedals or the axe for certain gigs or jobs, I'm pretty sure given the choice, he goes right back to tubes. He's raving about his Suhr handwired 68 plexi clone with a variac switch right now. He also likes his PT100 a lot. So really, when put side by side, the tubes will continue to win out. Doesn't mean you can't get away with the axe and a poweramp but then as stated by a few people, you might as well mic a real tube amp. So then we are left with the $ factor. You just have to decide whether or not you want digital amps or modular amps. To me, the axe still has that digital fizz factor...they fizz differently than tube amps crunch. Interesting argument.. sounds almost like we are arguing tone one minute and then cost effectiveness the next. Personally, I'm done dropping huge amounts of cash on gear. I should honestly be happy with a few modules and boosts.
Kapo_Polenton said:
Dude, I really don't want to make this topic about me but to briefly answer your question, programs that appear all over satellite and cable networks (even some network) such as Bravo, The History Channel, SyFy, Speed Network, etc.
Now, back on topic, please!
ricky
Well-known member
Are all of those endorsers using the AxeFX fro their amp models or their effects? Most people started with the Digitech GSP1101 for the models and effects in one box and then went to using the effects through the tube amp of their choice, self included. I did a session recently with the digitech models for Patrick Leonard, no slouch of a producer. It was good enough and was right in context. as the sound is pretty much in my head and hands, I can get the sound I hear on most anything. Certain things like tubes just make it easier. I used digital models for a couple of years and they are pretty cool. However once I discovered the MTS stuff, things really changed for me. I like both worlds but prefer tubes. I do some high gain stuff and can't tell a lot of difference btw tubes and models in a lot of patches. I have A/B'd a Mesa tube and model and got it to where I could not tell the difference. However, when it comes to clean fenderish tones,even the AxeFX does not come close for me.
GtrGeorge!
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wow..
I read 5 pages of this and all the meandering was kinda entertaining, but If I may...
I think every era has room for all kinds of sounds: Authentic,Fake and everything in between.
I kinda dig it.
I was criticized in the 90s for using processed sounds by a guy I know who works with Page and some major artists(The Who etc), for sound "too processed"...but ya know,he had a point. I wanted that. I think it worked for the song, and it's what I wanted to give my audience.
Now I do a more Authentic thing,and I use MTS because its the best compromise I could live with. Its no VoxAc30, or Plexi....but its really **** good for my live work and studio work. I try lots of other things, all the time, as well.
As you may know me and Mike P are not on the same page...but I have to say,in this regard he's right. All the major dogs use the real deal...and nothing sounds like a ac30 but an ac30. The hum, the crackle, the playability...there are parts of it I love and parts I hate.
I look forward to the day when modeling totally arrives. So far I haven't heard it WIN. I'm pretty bizy working in this bizness to worry about it.
Have a great New Year, Keep Rockin' !!!
GtrGeorge
I read 5 pages of this and all the meandering was kinda entertaining, but If I may...
I think every era has room for all kinds of sounds: Authentic,Fake and everything in between.
I kinda dig it.
I was criticized in the 90s for using processed sounds by a guy I know who works with Page and some major artists(The Who etc), for sound "too processed"...but ya know,he had a point. I wanted that. I think it worked for the song, and it's what I wanted to give my audience.
Now I do a more Authentic thing,and I use MTS because its the best compromise I could live with. Its no VoxAc30, or Plexi....but its really **** good for my live work and studio work. I try lots of other things, all the time, as well.
As you may know me and Mike P are not on the same page...but I have to say,in this regard he's right. All the major dogs use the real deal...and nothing sounds like a ac30 but an ac30. The hum, the crackle, the playability...there are parts of it I love and parts I hate.
I look forward to the day when modeling totally arrives. So far I haven't heard it WIN. I'm pretty bizy working in this bizness to worry about it.
Have a great New Year, Keep Rockin' !!!
GtrGeorge
rhequiem
Well-known member
Yeah, it's really interesting having an actual discussion about this topic, because there's really no right or wrong answer. To me, it's almost like talking about religion or politics hehe
Even though I'm in the camp that believes (really good) modelling can compete with a good tube amp, based on my own personal experience and my own personal beliefs and opinions, I certainly find it intriguing to hear other people's opinions and discuss the topic with them. I think it's cool that everyone that's participated in this discussion thusfar has remained largely cool-headed and listened to other people's thoughts and opinions while sharing their own. It's a cool crowd here on the MTS forums
Happy New Year, everyone!
Even though I'm in the camp that believes (really good) modelling can compete with a good tube amp, based on my own personal experience and my own personal beliefs and opinions, I certainly find it intriguing to hear other people's opinions and discuss the topic with them. I think it's cool that everyone that's participated in this discussion thusfar has remained largely cool-headed and listened to other people's thoughts and opinions while sharing their own. It's a cool crowd here on the MTS forums
Happy New Year, everyone!
GtrGeorge! said:
I don't. Not because I am a tube purist, but that would be the death nail for tube amps. That would mean tube production would end or be reduced drastically thereby skyrocketing tube prices. Which means I would then need to buy a new rig.
Death to modeling amps/software/technology. :lol:
Where I find the modelers lacking is in the midgain to high gain tones. I think they do a great job producing a clean tone. I wont comment on whether they nail that (insert amp here) clean tone, because I have not played alot of those amps or if I did it was so long ago & not a tape/recording that I have nothing to compare it to. And I think Mike hit the nail on the head. Most of us are probably in the same boat that I am, either not having played the amps in question or did so briefly & nothing to queue up & compare it to.
Hamner1 said:
The day modeling arrives.....death nail for tube amps?... Those are RETARDED statements.
What AMPS are these guys trying to emulate. F'N TUBE AMPS! If tube amps werent the bench mark here then why and what are the modelers trying their damnedest to COPY??
rhequiem
Well-known member
I think it's safe to say that modelling is on the rise. It's just the way of things. It's just generally-speaking more affordable (Line 6 gear comes to mind) and fits what seems to be an ever-growing population's needs as far as tone goes. I don't think modelling will eliminate tube amps in the near future, but I think it will become an issue of manufacturing cost, as creating digital modelers will become cheaper and cheaper, yet also more powerful, as technology costs continue to drop. I imagine there will come a point when those curves between cost/sound/quality intersect, and that will probably begin the real decline of the tube amp, even moreso than we are seeing it lately. And who knows, maybe some other breakthrough in technology will occur that is vastly superior to modelling that will make this jump happen even more quickly. Take the Kempler Profiling Amp (http://kemper-amps.com/page/render/...plifier___Guitar_Amplification_Redefined.html as an example of a different approach to modelling.
It's an interesting time to be alive, as technology continues to develop at an astonishing rate. We've already seen technological advancements replace so many of the technologies some of us grew up with (analog phones, record players, CRT televisions, etc) - it's only a matter of time before the vacuum tube guitar amp meets the same fate, IMO
It's an interesting time to be alive, as technology continues to develop at an astonishing rate. We've already seen technological advancements replace so many of the technologies some of us grew up with (analog phones, record players, CRT televisions, etc) - it's only a matter of time before the vacuum tube guitar amp meets the same fate, IMO
BigBrewtus
Well-known member
I have to admit that this thread has givin' me a giggle at times and made me want to pull hairs too. :shock: :? :lol:
Reguardless both digital and tube are here to stay forever. Solid state became a huge norm because of technology and reliability. Digital arose to please the masses for options on the cheap. This all leads us to where we are with MTS. Tube amps with tonal options on the cheap. I am a tube lover through and through but I was glad to have the digital option when I was very poor and affordable lunch box tube amps werent around. My tube amps will not be replaced personally but to think that there arent people producing music that doesnt sell and used in every level and styles of production and using digital, wrong......
Others have mention a question of if only the real deal tube amp will do then why would someone have modular. Hmm? The reason some have said these are emulations is because the modules are not electrical copies of what they are made to sound like. Bruce Almighty will tell you that.
So peace and love to you all. May the New Year bring you many times with good friends, great tones, and great tunes!!!
Reguardless both digital and tube are here to stay forever. Solid state became a huge norm because of technology and reliability. Digital arose to please the masses for options on the cheap. This all leads us to where we are with MTS. Tube amps with tonal options on the cheap. I am a tube lover through and through but I was glad to have the digital option when I was very poor and affordable lunch box tube amps werent around. My tube amps will not be replaced personally but to think that there arent people producing music that doesnt sell and used in every level and styles of production and using digital, wrong......
Others have mention a question of if only the real deal tube amp will do then why would someone have modular. Hmm? The reason some have said these are emulations is because the modules are not electrical copies of what they are made to sound like. Bruce Almighty will tell you that.
So peace and love to you all. May the New Year bring you many times with good friends, great tones, and great tunes!!!
BigBrewtus said:
I'd like a list, with Soundscan numbers, of highly successful rock, Alt rock and metal bands that are using digital emulations over tube amps along with actual PROOF, not hyperbole, in high quality, highly produced albums or even production library tracks.
I deal with high end production libraries that will not allow MIDI brass sections and other similar instrumentation and would never allow fake, digital guitars.
The production demands in my business are as higher or higher than at any point in music history. I just don't buy for one second that major record labels and A&R have lowered their standards so far that digital guitars are tolerated, let alone allowed.
Happy New Year to everyone (and stop believing every ad and magazine article)!
I would have liked everyone to have just ignored the op's trolling attempt. I cannot think of any other reason to have posted twice that he is leaving mts blah blah blah. Who cares, see ya. Sorry, had to call trolling.
kc2eeb
Well-known member
Digitally recreated imitations of amplifiers, no matter how sophisticated,
(sophist, sophism i.e. a specious argument used to deceive) is exactly that.
MTS amps and modules are NOT modeling. Look at the schematics.
Do you see any "digital sound synthesizing" going on in there?
If the modules were hard wired or, better yet, 20 or 30 different model
Randall amps, would that change what they do?
And, ultimately, it all goes into a speaker, a very analogue device.
And then to our ears. Last time I checked, human beings are analogue.
(sophist, sophism i.e. a specious argument used to deceive) is exactly that.
MTS amps and modules are NOT modeling. Look at the schematics.
Do you see any "digital sound synthesizing" going on in there?
If the modules were hard wired or, better yet, 20 or 30 different model
Randall amps, would that change what they do?
And, ultimately, it all goes into a speaker, a very analogue device.
And then to our ears. Last time I checked, human beings are analogue.
Ok I had the Randall MTS and Currently have the Axe fx 2.
the Mts ran through a power amp to my cab
Same setup I have with the Axe 2
***Confession time***
Truthfully I have not found a sound thats has matched my modded Scary yet, in sound and in feel. It may be user error and I will give it a bit more time.
My other guitarist was hear and we played with the Axe for about 2 hours.
We both agreed that My Baron head at the jam space sounds much bigger.
My wife actually came up and heard my jamming today ,her comments as someone who has always had good years ,was wow "i think the Fractal is the worst tone you have had since we have been together"
She said the Scary and my Egnaters were worlds better as well as my current Baron heads .and this is just from a non musicians ears
the Mts ran through a power amp to my cab
Same setup I have with the Axe 2
***Confession time***
Truthfully I have not found a sound thats has matched my modded Scary yet, in sound and in feel. It may be user error and I will give it a bit more time.
My other guitarist was hear and we played with the Axe for about 2 hours.
We both agreed that My Baron head at the jam space sounds much bigger.
My wife actually came up and heard my jamming today ,her comments as someone who has always had good years ,was wow "i think the Fractal is the worst tone you have had since we have been together"
She said the Scary and my Egnaters were worlds better as well as my current Baron heads .and this is just from a non musicians ears
crankyrayhanky
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Happy New Year!
First order of business: defeat Robot/Fractal uprising
Keep things tube/human
First order of business: defeat Robot/Fractal uprising
Keep things tube/human
rhequiem
Well-known member
crankyrayhanky said:
lol
Happy New Year, dude! *beep beep*
MarcoR
Well-known member
Mike P said:
Yet autotune on vocals is acceptable? Go figure?
