Rivera Rock Crusher Power Attenuator

[audiomidijace]

Watch Paul Rivera Sr. explain why the Rivera Rock Crusher Power Attenuator is so special.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1GHg3gJCts
I may pick one of these up.

 

[Julia]

It may be better made, but I'm skeptical. You crank the level of a 100 W tube amp and reduce the volume of it down to under 1 W with an attenuator it'll sound like you're playing a clean amp with a distortion pedal at very low volume. The speaker still isn't going to travel as far. It's simple physics. If you're having volume issues in your apartment or house, Blackstar makes an HT1 which is still loud as hell. Yes. 1 Watt.

The difference with the Rivera is that it is better built and looks like it might allow use with fewer trips to the amp tech.

 

[gag halfrunt]

Attenuators are crap. There, I said it.

I have tried them all, and owned several of them.

Regardless of their claims, they ALL change your tone too much. Some are worse than others, of course, but a good PPIMV will always sound better than a NMV amp (or other amp with the channel volume all the way up) with an attenuator.

The 'magic' you get from cranking a NMV amp way up is completely lost using an attenuator. I've tried for years to make them do what they claim, but it's all an illusion, imho.

 

[nikki-k]

IMO, it comes down to nuance and subtleties. Anything shy of running a real amp in the way that pleases you most is a compromise, period. For some of us, even when the compromises are subtle, those subtleties can be glaring. Every attenuator I have tried has been too impactful on tone for me.

 

[fishtank]

http://www.fluxtone-speakers.com

ALL the power goes to the speakers - the speaker efficiency is reduced by reducing the magnet strength (by varying the voltage to an electromagnet) thus lowering the volume to whatever you want.

The ONLY thing I've ever found to sound good at low volume levels. By far the best thing out there, but not inexpensive. These things are nothing short of amazing.

 

[Nightdare]

http://www.fluxtone-speakers.com

ALL the power goes to the speakers - the speaker efficiency is reduced by reducing the magnet strength (by varying the voltage to an electromagnet) thus lowering the volume to whatever you want.

The ONLY thing I've ever found to sound good at low volume levels. By far the best thing out there, but not inexpensive. These things are nothing short of amazing.

Pushing a speakercoil to the level of distortion may be changeable, the air it moves when the cones are vomiting dBs STILL is a part of the equation
any cone which output is reduced with 25 dB will react/move -and thereby- sound differently


But those who look negatively towards 'attenuators' may need to realize that not everyone has the posibillity to make the tubes boil AND the cones bounce out of the cabinets

I myself am not in a position atm to find out how my rig sounds at full blast
IOW, I'm relying solely on preamp distortion. So looking at that matter:
I'm missing 3 major parts in 'tone'

I'm sure 'attenuated' powertube distortion will not sound the same as full bore/no brakes applied
but will it sound better or worse then just preamp distortion?

 

[audiomidijace]

This one is interesting too. Paul Rivera explains why most ISO cabs suck and what they did differently with the Rivera Silent Sister ISO cab. This made a lot of sense to me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESOrSKGojtg&feature=related

 

[Whoopysnorp]

I have a Hot Plate, and I find it useful for just taking the edge off. I play through either an Egnater Tweaker (usually with my MTS stuff running into the effects loop) or a Mesa Studio .22 at home, and even though these are both low-wattage amps, they are still pretty **** loud. I stick the Hot Plate in the mix to take the level of the audio down 8 dB. This just gets me a little more usable range on the master volume control, without changing the sound too much (to my ears). When I really crank the amp and use the Hot Plate to attenuate it down to comfortable levels, yeah, it makes it sound pretty bad. It gets really fizzy, thin, and trebly. I never mess with that.

 

[kc2eeb]

http://www.eminence.com/speakers/speaker-detail/?model=Maverick
I have this in my RM50.
It works by moving the magnet pole piece in and out of the voice coil.
It is the best way I've found to lower the SPL with the least compromise
in sound quality. This thing really works.

 

[funkywrench]

You guys owe it to yourselves to try out the new generation of attenuators like the Aracom, Faustine or Alex Attenuators.

I personally own the Alex Attenuator (the cheapest of the bunch) and I honestly think its the best gear investment I've ever made. Attenuation right down to bedroom volumes (even silent if required) and it has built in treble compensation. I've used it with a few different amps (including my RM50) and I couldn't be happier.

I find the attenuated tone to be at least 95% of the original tone, and it sounds much better to me than using the master volume low on the amp (even though the RM50 does have a very good master).

 

[audiomidijace]

The Alex sounds impressive. Do you know the price or how to contact for purchase?

 

[gag halfrunt]

You guys owe it to yourselves to try out the new generation of attenuators like the Aracom, Faustine or Alex Attenuators.

I personally own the Alex Attenuator (the cheapest of the bunch) and I honestly think its the best gear investment I've ever made. Attenuation right down to bedroom volumes (even silent if required) and it has built in treble compensation. I've used it with a few different amps (including my RM50) and I couldn't be happier.

I find the attenuated tone to be at least 95% of the original tone, and it sounds much better to me than using the master volume low on the amp (even though the RM50 does have a very good master).

I bought my Alex's Attenuator directly from Alex. Picked it up at his workshop in his garage. Very nice guy, and I had a lengthy discussion with him about how his differed than other load boxes. I did like his attenuator better than others. But it still robbed tone like a thief at significant attenuation levels. And I'm not talking about maxing the amp and then going to whisper volume. I mean only reducing to gig volume. Still way too much of a change for me.

IMO, a good master volume amp (post phase inverter) still sounds loads better than a cranked amp into an attenuator.

 

[kc2eeb]

A little further explanation.
http://www.eminence.com/speakers/speaker-detail/?model=Maverick
All the attenuators described in this thread, EXCEPT this one, go between the power amp and the speaker. This attenuator IS the speaker. It does absolutely nothing to alter or limit the electrical signal coming from the output transformer to the speaker and the voice coil of the speaker gets the full output from the amp. The way it attenuates the sound is by moving the magnetic field in and out of the voice coil. So, the interaction between the power amp and voice coil stays the same. The knob on the back of the speaker moves the magnetic pole piece of the magnet in and out of the voice
coil so, you can go from full volume as if it was a regular speaker or lower it from 99.44db to 91.5db.
It also come in a more British voiced model.
http://www.eminence.com/speakers/speaker-detail/?model=Reignmaker

 

[Nightdare]

Looks nice, except for the fact that mounting it in a closed back speaker would not be very pactical

 

[kc2eeb]

You can put it in a 1x12' open back cabinet. The price of the speaker plus the cabinet is less than many of the attenuators by themselves.
If you have to have the 4x12" cabinet "look" you can put the head on the 4x12" and the 1x12" next to it on the floor or, if you mike your amps, behind it. Wouldn't be the first time that was done.

 

[gag halfrunt]

http://www.eminence.com/speakers/speaker-detail/?model=Maverick
I have this in my RM50.
It works by moving the magnet pole piece in and out of the voice coil.
It is the best way I've found to lower the SPL with the least compromise
in sound quality. This thing really works.

I remember seeing an ad for these last year sometime, and wondering if they were just the newest gimmick. I liked the theory behind it, but didn't know anyone who had tried one. I'm glad you brought them up here. So you like yours, huh?

I've just ordered one to try it out. It'll be here next week. I'm very curious to see how it sounds when attenuated.

 

[Julia]

91 db is still hella loud. An example is playing fortissimo on an open concert grand. That loud. When they measure that on a speaker that's 1 watt at 1 meter distance. You will notice it as a little less than 1/2 as loud as the open speaker. So if you're in an apartment situation, that's not going to cut it.

A lot of tone you hear live comes from speaker cone breakup. So if you need to play at lower but not bedroom levels it might behoove you to try a speaker that breaks up early, but this also would mean speakers that are power rated less than your amp, like a 15W rated speaker -- two of them in a cab is 30W. Solution is to run a compressor when playing clean to keep the transients from spiking too much and causing the cone to over-travel. When playing dirty you're compressing anyway.

Or just buy a small SS modeling amp for practice.

If you're in a situation where you've got to keep it low for family reasons look into alternatives. I had to look into alternatives for hearing reasons. I went to modeling and a good pair of near field monitors. When writing music it works well because I can work with an entire mix a lot easier. It's not as plug and play as an amp, though.

 

[fishtank]

Pushing a speakercoil to the level of distortion may be changeable, the air it moves when the cones are vomiting dBs STILL is a part of the equation
any cone which output is reduced with 25 dB will react/move -and thereby- sound differently

I never implied it was 100% exactly the same as a normal speaker at full power, but I have heard them and played through them - they sound really, really good and are the closest thing I have ever heard attenuated versus wide open.

I read an article about these a year or so before I got to try them - I was more than a bit skeptical and doubted they would sound very good. The company was at an amp show in Nashville that I attended a while back and I was able to hear them in action. You really need to hear them yourself as they sound incredible.

Apparently, much of the tone from a cranked up amp comes from the interaction of the power section (output xfmr and tubes etc.) and the voice coil. Using a conventional attenuator isolates this interaction and the more attenuation you use the more isolation and tone-suck you get. The Flux-Tone eliminates this problem. Yes, the speaker is not moving as much when you reduce the magnet strength (and part of the reason I was initially skeptical), but it appears that the vast majority of the "tone-suck" comes from the isolation of the power amp and voice coil and not so much from the speaker movement as many appear to have assumed.

 

[kc2eeb]

Thank you fishtank.
I use the amp gigging, live in the clubs. I have actually been asked to "turn it up a little." Imagine that.
Yes, when a speaker is driven by the power amp it also generates a voltage
much like a microphone. If you have a sensitive multimeter and have a speaker out that you can push (gently) on the cone, connect it to the speaker
terminal and see what you get on the meter. The speaker also has reactance.
Of course you're not getting what the speaker cone does when you push it,
but you're getting everything else, and, you can dial it in to suit the playing situation.