SL+ and the JCM800

[Julia]

I've got one with the JCM800 mod made in the second half of 2008. Yesterday afternoon I played a real JCM800 Lead. The SL+ is a good sounding module and does a decent Marshallish JCM800ish tone, but it is no JCM800.

I used the same brand axe and same pickup. It was an active Duncan Blackout so the tonewood isn't coming into play that much. The real 800 was tighter and had that famous grind especially when cranked a bit.

I got home and played through my SL+. The closest I could get was with my Alexi through it with the bright switch on and the gain at 11:00, mids cranked to 4:00, bass at 1:00 and treble at noon. Also I've got 6550s so that could be part of it, but since I really couldn't get the 800 loud enough to get those EL34s to breakup. The SL+ sounded very good and the tone is something I can live with easily. It's pretty close, but it's no JCM800.

I think you can copy the preamp circuit, but it still won't sound the same because you've got to have it sonically tuned with the power section so you get a tonal match. So do I dare drop that quad of EL34s in the amp? you know if it ain't broke....

The amp was the reissue and on sale for $1200 new. If I had $1200 it would have gone home. I've come to the conclusion that if you want that sound you've got to go for the real deal or a very very good clone. I had a JVM 410H before the Randall and its OD1 was supposed to be the JCM800, but even that wasn't. The circuit was supposed to be the same through that preamp too, but it just didn't sound the same.

Keep in mind I spend most of my time with the KH1 and a Strat with a tubescreamer, or the SL+, or a max gain Brahma with humbuckers. But there's not much difference between the SL+ with those settings and the Brahma tonally.

 

[SacredGroove]

Thanks for the info. It's too bad you couldn't have your SL+ along side the JCM800 to compare them.

Since you have both, SL+ and MrScary, can you a/b them? I did, but I'm curious to know what you find.

 

[Julia]

Hmmm.... this gets me thinking....

I might pull a Soundclick "Gearmanndude" type shootout between them, and maybe throw in the stock Brahma as well. This will take some time and will require reamping. But I think it would be something good to have for reference material. All three modules bone stock.

I'll use my Alexi, black coily cable from the good folks at Bullet Cable, Randall Lynch Box w/ 6550s. Same settings on the amp for density and presence and MV.

I'll try to tweak the modules for the same type of sound and you make the decision. See if you can tell the difference.

I'll reamp the same track three times and make a composite track.

 

[kc2eeb]

If I only wanted the sound of a.......fill in the blank...amp, I'd go and buy one.
Certainly not to disparage this topic or thread nor "how close can one get
to the sound of..." discussion, I never thought for a moment that any of the modules could recreate "exactly" the complete sound of a particular amp.
What I did expect, and got, was the tonal "type" of sound.
To get more than that, you'd have to change the PI circuit, transformers,
OT circuit and speaker set up, in essence, the whole amp.
And, how many of you have played the same model amp, just a different one, and have it sound different, with the same guitar and everything else?

 

[Julia]

This all said I did compare and A/B the Mr. Scary and the SL+. Mr. Scary is looser in the mids and bass. At least mine is. If I set up Mr. Scary like a Soldano with a slight scoop in the mids, it just lacks the cutting power, but then it isn't going to be set up like a SLO because how many people play a maple body, maple neck axe with a Screamin' Demon? I think they compensated for that in the EQ. But if I boost the mids up like I have with the SL+ the mids are good but it seems looser. Also the gain structure is a bit higher.... like 10:00 = 11:00.

Probably the Mr. Scary would be better for singing solos and I've used it on them and like it for them, but I really like the SL+ as a general all around hi-gain module. And it sounds similar to some modded JMPs I've heard. It definitely is in that tonal spectrum.

 

[kc2eeb]

I agree. I find, in the RM50 and also the RM4, the SL+ seems to stay
put as a good high gain staple. In a way, it's more versatile than the actual Marshall, a little more pliable, less fizzy. Last Marshalls I had were
two 100watt Lead stacks, 16 12s and cranked all the time, 1970 to 1973.
Nothing sounds like that but it is a one trick pony. There's nowhere you could play like that anymore.

 

[Julia]

I think I'd had it on another forum about all the different ways of getting the Marshall JCM800 sound. Believe me I've tried most of them. Yes and it's a one trick pony, just like the 5150 is a one trick pony, but it does the one trick very very well. But like you said, there are few places you can play like that anymore -- like concert venues.

...... there are few places that actually hire live bands these days.

It would be fun to just have one around and crank it up for the hell of it. I was loud enough today I had my 20' cable going out of the studio room and into my bedroom and I was still getting feedback. But **** it sounded good and I was only up 3/4 on the MV and 11:00 on the gain on the SL+. I think those greenbacks were getting close to hitting their limit.

 

[kbause]

Thats a very loose statement.

Go out there and play a bunch of JCM800s from all different eras. Try all of them from the older JMP style 2203/2204 to the "2 channel" 2205/2210s and then onto some reissues.

You'll get a LOT of variation in there IMO.
In my opinion the SL+ without the JCM800 mod sounds quite a bit like my old DSL's red channel, the second SL+ I had with the 800 mod sounds very much like the gainier side of my other guitarist's 2210.

I a/bed them sitting on top of one another at the same volume with the same guitar, cab, speakers, EVERYTHING. (this was loaded into my RM50 with EL34s)


Basically all I'm saying is no it won't sound exactly like any other JCM800, but neither do a lot of JCM800s. So much variation in components and then later in actual design that its hard to pin down.
Personally I don't like 800s or the SL+ with actives at all so I'm probably going for a different sound altogether.

Either way its all up to you and what you want, if you can't get the MTS stuff into the ballpark of what you're looking for then go buy the "real deal."

 

[eyeball987]

I agree with the comparison of the stock SL+ and stock Scary. I had my Scary modded (JF) and it came back sounding bigger, tighter, and with a more usable range on the gain knob. I found the same to be true with my JF Brahma.

There is something in the tone (lower mids maybe?) that seems to fill out the tone a bit more with the modded units compared to the stock SL+. With that being said, I really like the SL+ and have no plans of modding it.

I need the E2 to come out so that I can work a clean module back into my set up! My DLX and KH1 are sitting on top of the RM100 loaded with 3 Marshall tones and I can't bring myself to pull one for the other.

 

[khingpynn]

I like the stock Scary and find that the Danelectro Transparent OD ( $35 ) works really well with it and most all other high gain modules... hell it works well with the Blackface too.

It add's dimension, clarity/tightness, and muscle to an allready great sounding stock module... this set up is my new favorite metal and lead tone.

I tend to use the 1086 for rhythm it's so well suited for that purpose. I also use the TOD with the 1086 and get great results great results. I like it far better than the BBE Sonic Stomp. I run the gain at about 6 and with the push from the TOD it just nails a great modded JCM 800 tone.

I like the Dano TOD so much I'm getting a second for back up... maybe a version II now though... hope it can still do what the origional does.

 

[eyeball987]

I like the stock Scary and find that the Danelectro Transparent OD ( $35 ) works really well with it and most all other high gain modules... hell it works well with the Blackface too.

It add's dimension, clarity/tightness, and muscle to an allready great sounding stock module... this set up is my new favorite metal and lead tone.

I tend to use the 1086 for rhythm it's so well suited for that purpose. I also use the TOD with the 1086 and get great results great results. I like it far better than the BBE Sonic Stomp. I run the gain at about 6 and with the push from the TOD it just nails a great modded JCM 800 tone.

I like the Dano TOD so much I'm getting a second for back up... maybe a version II now though... hope it can still do what the origional does.

+1 to what he said. I love the TOD with all of my modules. I also have the CC Drive. It works pretty good too but is brighter and thins out the tone a touch too much.

I use mine for heavy rock, 80's hair metal, and AIC type tones with a SL+, JF Brahma, or JF Scary.

 

[Julia]

kbause, the variation in between same amps was gone over in detail on the Marshall JVM forum. The JCM800 was under discussion because the topic was the Overdrive 1 channel on the JVM. There are variations in capacitors and resistors that fall within the same spec. Some will let more electricity through than others.

So even someone's SL+ module that is one S/N different from mine could sound slightly different.

The Lead JCM800 reissue is based on the 2203 with a master volume. It does have a unique sound. One that ushered in the late 70s and early 80s.

To me the SL+ is a very good tone.