So you wanna talk about guitar pickups, huh?

[guitarcomet]

Seems we nearly highjacked another member's thread talking about pickups,....I appoligize Nigel T. (hope you get your 1086 fixed or modded )

I had a few more things to say...

I'm not discounting active pickups. In fact my Jackson has some of the best active I've ever heard. (they have Jackson in script written on them but I doubt they are)
But active is best for certain things. More in your face, flat out, balls to the wall....a chicken caught in a tractor's nuts.
The classic (i.e. "appropriate") sound of an electric guitar (1950-1990) has been passive pickups and tube amps. This is just fact.
Achieving this tone is easier and more accurate with passive pickups. (and tube amps)
After 1985, active pickups became standard on some models and increased in popularity over the next decade. (new generation, new sound)
Still, some newer players prefer the vintage sound.
I do.

Now, these comments about Duncan has a "honk" and Dimarzio has a "sizzle"?
Shizelle manizzle, Honky! :lol:
Of course they do! It's their voice, their personality.
But some do sound quite different.
At one point I had 5 Les Pauls (1 Custom, 3 Standards and 1 Deluxe R.I.)
I played them all onstage through the same Fender Twin amp (along with several other guitars equipt with aftermarket pickups)
I found the hotter pickups best for harder stuff, but they didn't have the pure tone of say the SD SH-1 (59's I think they're called now) or the smoother Dimarzios.
Not saying the Screamin' Demon or DP-100 Super Distortion are bad pickups, but you lose tone as you gain distortion. Same as your amps do.
The Gibson humbucker made long ago just about nailed the "sweet spot".
Funny thing is, I don't use single coils much at all anymore. Too thin, doesn't cut through, wimpy. I haven't played a single coil onstage since '97. (the P-90 would be an exception)
I have a '91 PRS Custom 24 with original T + B pickups. It has the 5-way rotor switch and at poss. # 2 is sounds like a single coil. (only better) But I only use it for pretty stuff
I know it's apples and hand grenades, but..
Active is a must for acoustic guitar in live situations. I won't play one that isn't. Passive tone control is a joke when you're talking acoustic. my 2?

OH BTW, all those off the beaten path names Zander was throwing around, (guitarattack.com, Guitarforce Spitfire and Superstar)...very interesting!
I have heard of and used one Mighty Mite humbucker...25 years ago (it squealed), but I guess after 25 years they might have hit on something. :lol: (maybe epoxy?)

Keep taking Zander, I'm all ears! :wink:

 

[Jack Napalm]

It doesn't have to be either or. The more I play the more I like passive pickups for live situations. For recording I love my EMG's. Depends on the rigs as well. For most modeling units, pods and what nots, I don't think it matters as much. In fact I think EMG's sound better with modeled gear but neither respond well to just rolling off the volume unlike a passive pickup and a nice amp. The amp doesn't even have to be tube either.

I also like more gain when playing live than when recording but prefer pickups with less gain. Go figure that one out.

There are a lot of ways to skin the cat and there is no right or wrong way.

 

[Zander]

Well...

I certainly don't profess to be any kind of a "pickup guru". I'm simply sharing my empirical experiences. Clearly your mileage may vary. After having taken a lay-of-the-land, I have come to the opinion that while $300.00 pickups certainly might sound better than $45.00 pickups, I have serious doubts as to whether or not they sound $255.00 worth of better. Then again, harmony is in the ear of the listener.

It is also self-evident that many elements beyond pickups have a lot more to do with a player's tone.

I am a believer in playing the numbers. Are there people who get lucky by ignoring the numbers and playing their hunches? Absolutely. However, I think if you want to be able to reliably and repeatably find success, you've got to play the numbers. Playing the numbers won't guarantee success, but I think it's unquestionable that it provides the best chance of success.

So in order to play the numbers, I think it's probably helpful to construct a hierarchy of tonal elements:

1.) Amplifier
- a.) preamp
- b.) power amp
2.) Speakers
3.) Length of Signal Chain
- a.) pedals
4.) Fingers
5.) Guitar
- a.) construction
- b.) pickups
- c.) fretboard wood
- d.) body wood
6.) Speaker Cabinet
- a.) porting/damping
- b.) construction

I certainly don't pretend to believe that this list is definitive. This is just a quick approximation of how *I* might prioritize tonal elements in an entire signal chain. This is *MY* experience. All this said, I think it goes without saying that the chain is clearly only as strong as its weakest link. If 5d (body wood) is absolutely crappy, you'll probably sound bad.

I'd also point out that "cheap" is the description of the quality of a product, not said product's price.

But going back to the list, pickups isn't so high on it. Players should, in my opinion, drive their considerations on constructing tone using a list like this, or something similar.

I spent a LOT of money in my teen years on guitars that tonally, didn't satisfy me; when I probably could have been made happy by all of those guitars by first making sure I had a GOOD and MUSICAL amp.

 

[Julia]

Singles can sound thin. With singles on my G&L and Mustang I'm usually running them through a boost of some sort to thicken the tone, and I'm usually using the neck/middle on the G&L, and both pickups on the Mustang. Back in the day players used to boost these with a rangemaster rather than a tubescreamer.

My Epi with the Gibby P90s? Those things cut through. They scream.

Singles have forced me to clean up my technique.

This said, I do like actives as well, just not the EMG 85. I hate that one. Since I tend to play middle switch position a lot any set that includes this is out. I like the 60 and the 89.

 

[guitarcomet]

It doesn't have to be either or.
Exactly!

The more I play the more I like passive pickups for live situations.
Took me 15 years to figure that out.

For most modeling units, pods and what nots, I don't think it matters as much.
It really doesn't. The modeling units (and software) are the "perfect world" recording environment. (unless you live in remote Alaska, have a Newman U87 mic and an SSL mixer)

In fact I think EMG's sound better with modeled gear but neither respond well to just rolling off the volume unlike a passive pickup and a nice amp.
Yes, I'd agree.

The amp doesn't even have to be tube either.
....

I also like more gain when playing live than when recording but prefer pickups with less gain. Go figure that one out.
No, that makes perfect sense to me. I'm the same way. Recording is critical, ....live playing? (prove I just played that bad note!) :lol:

There are a lot of ways to skin the cat and there is no right or wrong way.

"More than one way to skin a cat" ... my favorite saying.

Just some tidbits:

I tried out a threesome of Kent Armstrong Lipstick (retro style) pickups back in the late 90s.
Man, they sucked!

Another waste of money was the JB. Jr and/or Lil' Screamin' demon. I have yet to hear a single coil sized humbucker that sounded like the real thing. I don't think it's physically possible. Not bad pickups, just not real humbux.

My favorite Gibson pickups are older P-90s. They have a spank that is pleasant and very listenable. They cover a lot of ground, too.

My favorite Gibson pickups for recording are the mini humbuckers (on the Deluxe models). Though they don't cut the mustard on stage, they sound great for recording esp. if playing Country music and clean stuff.

Gibson stock humbuckers are like an industry standard to me. If your pickups are NOT at least as good as stock Gibson pickups...Get Off The Stage! :lol:

 

[GtrGeorge!]

so many pickups so little time.
I have used so many..and still to this day continue to learn and experiment. Thats why you guy would dig seeing me live..its a tone fest!!!!
See the gig ads for details.
Anyway, the only sold things I can say are: Actives and passives are different on so many levels, and so much depends on what you are interacing with. What amp? What preamp?
I find neither is the answer. But agree with Guitarcomets comments that passives DEFINED the sound of guitar from 1950-1990. And I have alot of respect for that. But even now, I see the need for change..players now routinely tune down (to A!!!) use 7 and string guitars, use baritone instrumemts and essentially approach the same game with all new aspirations and technique. its kind of exciting. i wish their was variety among the innovators..but hey thats asking alot.
I thinks its all good. I live with actives out live in my High energy cover band ("The Fuse") and play passives occasionally in my home studio. Both are good. And I would like all the weird hybrid stuff in-between..like the HB pickups from germany years ago with EQ dials on the face of the HB!!! (I think it was from Shadow,inc).
mercy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Zander]

Hey guitarcomet:

Here's who I think is actually the custom pickup maker offering the most interesting options:

http://www.smitspickups.com/

The humbuckers start at $85 (can you tell what I prefer*? ) but what's really cool about Smit's is that you can combine the winding you want with the pole pieces you want with the bobbins you want with the bar magnets you want. I would wager if you asked you could probably get the wire gauging and enamel on them that you want too...

I actually haven't yet taken the plunge with Smit's but when I make my next pickup purchase, I presume it will be from him.

Again, there's a whole lot of pickup makers:

Smits
Guitar Fetish
GuitarAttack
Guitarforce
WCR
Motor City
WB Pickups
Wolfetone
MJS Pickups

If you do yahoo and google searches on "custom pickups", you'll find a lot of custom makers. You might even be shocked at how many are out there.

Since you seem interested in the old Gibson pickups, you might find this to be especially interesting:

http://gundrymedia.typepad.com/throbak_electronics/2008/07/throbak-vintage.html

The guy running Throbak salvaged some old pickup winding machines and even went to the old Gibson factory in Kalamazoo to pick up an original Gibson-built pickup winder. He charges an arm and a leg for his pickups, but could be just what you're looking for.

I was actually interested in getting a pickup called "Habanero" from WB Pickups (he's located here in California up by Sacramento), but after a little research online, I was disappointed to read that he seems rather lax (like MONTHS lax) with regard to fulfilling orders after money has been paid.

With regard to the MightyMite Motherbucker set I have... It doesn't have microphonic feedback as it has clearly been paraffin-dipped. The vendor I bought it from on eBay insisted that not only was it paraffin dipped, but that upon dipping, MightyMite now applies a vacuum to make sure paraffin fills any possible air pockets in the pickup. Clearly I can't verify this and it could be false, it could be true. That said if it is something MightyMite now does, I don't know vacuuming is just for the motherbucker, or for all its pickups nowadays.

Another anti-microphonic solution I've seen from my investigations into pickups that I think is VERY clever has been one pickup maker who dunks his pickups into liquid vinyl sealant (a can of wood sealant!) until no more bubbles come out. He pulls it out, wipes it clean with a brush and lets it air-dry for a week or so.

Finally, if you were to consider picking up some Burns TriSonic pickups and they ended up being are microphonic, I might try that vinyl sealant trick. Trisonics apparently are as "airy" sounding as they are because the coil is wound separately from the poles! As such it would seem they would be especially prone to becoming microphonic.

The original Burns Trisonics (made famous by Brian May) are rather expensive, even on eBay. This guy in "Olde England" seems to make good clones: http://www.adeson.co.uk/


(* Truth be told, I like the Lynch set up of a humbucker in the bridge and a single coil or stacked coil in the neck, with a series/parallel wiring in the for the humbucker included in a single three-way switch. I don't see a point in coil splitting when going parallel will cool the output and clean up nicely, also helping with riding the volume knob, while keeping the tonal characteristics the same...)

 

[guitarcomet]

All good info...gonna hafta check out some of those.

My favorite pickups (so far) are the ones in my '91 PRS Custom.
Although not as vintagy or hot as the SD SH-1, the 5-way switch gives me the variety I need to play many styles with just two pickups.
I also favor a Texas Special and a Gold Lace Sensor linked to play together. (I played with endless combinations with my Strats years ago)
That was a sweet clean tone.

 

[GtrGeorge!]

...yuk..I never got the Lace pickups...
Maybe its me. I should try them again. I cursed emgs until I had no choice but to play them..now I see the reasoning.
I wish I could get Rickenbacker (Toaster) pickups and Burns of London pickups. 2 very cool pickups..and fwiw: I think Lipsticks (when you get authentic good ones) can be wonderful. But they arent for everyone.
But I dig the attributes of every pickup and if you have the ears,the heart and the soul (and chops) you can make each of them sing quite nicely.
GtrGeorge
owner of some cool pickups.

 

[guitarcomet]

Lace Sensor pickups are NOT for everyone, nor are they for all kinds of music.
They are under-powered and lack much bite, but for clean Jazz/Country/Pop stuff, they sound wonderful.
When put side by side, Lace Sensors have nearly half the output of average passive pickups, so blending/switching them can be haphazard in live situations....but the combo of a Texas Special and a Lace Sensor is very special sounding. I think a blend knob put between the two would be a great idea. (should have tried that years ago)

The Rickenbacker pickups are cool, too. I nearly bought a newer Ric just for the pickups, but couldn't get use to the guitar. :roll:

 

[kc2eeb]

O.K. My 2 cents.
Right now I'm using a set of strat pickups Lindy made for me 10 years ago,
in a strat I built which you might call a "Fodera." They are standard out put. I told Lindy to make a set like he would make for himself. He did.
I play with a high action and lowered pickups. The only effect is a wah. My RM50 with a stock SL+ and Top Boost. Standard vintage style trem tailpiece with a Hipshot Trem-setter. At the gig last night the band going on after us asked our lead singer "what kind of compressor or effect I was using? What a great tone! I can't believe how long he can sustain a note!"
What's the point of all this?
The tone starts with the guitar acoustically!
Before you do anything else, UNPLUG the guitar and listen to it alone.
Hit the strings as hard as you will play them. If they slap the fingerboard,
you are seriously compromising your sound. Then play all over the neck.
If it doesn't have the tone you want, no pickup is going to create it.
Then, please try this, lower the pickups! The magnetic pull will mess with the harmonics and sustain. Magnetic pickups only create a signal primarily
from the string's movement to and away from the pickup, NOT across.
You can prove this to yourself with a STEEL tuning fork.
Of course strings vibrate in a slowly oscillating orbit, pluck one and take a good look. The point is, if the string can't fully vibrate, you won't get a full tone. Trying to make up for it with "hotter" pups simply mask the problem.

 

[kc2eeb]

O.K. My 2 cents.
Right now I'm using a set of strat pickups Lindy made for me 10 years ago,
in a strat I built which you might call a "Fodera." They are standard out put. I told Lindy to make a set like he would make for himself. He did.
I play with a high action and lowered pickups. The only effect is a wah. My RM50 with a stock SL+ and Top Boost. Standard vintage style trem tailpiece with a Hipshot Trem-setter. At the gig last night the band going on after us asked our lead singer "what kind of compressor or effect I was using? What a great tone! I can't believe how long he can sustain a note!"
What's the point of all this?
The tone starts with the guitar acoustically!
Before you do anything else, UNPLUG the guitar and listen to it alone.
Hit the strings as hard as you will play them. If they slap the fingerboard,
you are seriously compromising your sound. Then play all over the neck.
If it doesn't have the tone you want, no pickup is going to create it.
Then, please try this, lower the pickups! The magnetic pull will mess with the harmonics and sustain. Magnetic pickups only create a signal primarily
from the string's movement to and away from the pickup, NOT across.
You can prove this to yourself with a STEEL tuning fork.
Of course strings vibrate in a slowly oscillating orbit, pluck one and take a good look. The point is, if the string can't fully vibrate, you won't get a full tone. Trying to make up for it with "hotter" pups simply masks the problem.

 

[guitarcomet]

"what kind of compressor or effect I was using? What a great tone! I can't believe how long he can sustain a note!"
I tell people, "It's the Tubes!" 8)


The tone starts with the guitar acoustically!
Absolutley! I love my '82 LP Custom just for that reason. (A fine piece of furniture)

Trying to make up for it with "hotter" pups simply mask the problem.
It depends on what you're going for. In some cases, SD pickups aren't hot enough for a certain things. In some situations, Lace Sensors are unbeatable. I played them for 3-4 years.
But at the moment, I'm not playing much other than rock stuff. Humbuckers are great for that.

 

[kc2eeb]

When I say "make up for it" I'm referring to a lack of tone, timbre, resonance, "fullness,"etc. that is lacking acoustically. Of course, once you have the basic foundation, you can take it anywhere you want with different pups.

 

[kc2eeb]

Sorry for duplicating my post. I was correcting my spelling and somehow it reposted the whole thing.

 

[Shinozoku]

Another anti-microphonic solution I've seen from my investigations into pickups that I think is VERY clever has been one pickup maker who dunks his pickups into liquid vinyl sealant (a can of wood sealant!) until no more bubbles come out. He pulls it out, wipes it clean with a brush and lets it air-dry for a week or so.

Finally, if you were to consider picking up some Burns TriSonic pickups and they ended up being are microphonic, I might try that vinyl sealant trick. Trisonics apparently are as "airy" sounding as they are because the coil is wound separately from the poles! As such it would seem they would be especially prone to becoming microphonic.

The original Burns Trisonics (made famous by Brian May) are rather expensive, even on eBay. This guy in "Olde England" seems to make good clones: http://www.adeson.co.uk/


(* Truth be told, I like the Lynch set up of a humbucker in the bridge and a single coil or stacked coil in the neck, with a series/parallel wiring in the for the humbucker included in a single three-way switch. I don't see a point in coil splitting when going parallel will cool the output and clean up nicely, also helping with riding the volume knob, while keeping the tonal characteristics the same...)

Actually, there are no pole pieces in the Tris-onics, based on my research. The black holes at the top are a piece of plastic ran under the surface of the cover. The Tri-sonics are just a coil and 3 magnets placed side-by-side on a base with a metal cover on them. Brian may like the sound, but hated the microphonics that were inherent in them, so he used Araldite Epoxy to pot them.

In fact, I have a pickup maker in New Jersey making me a P-90 based on the Tri-Sonics (shhhh... don't tell anyone :lol:.... seriously, don't :evil: ) for the neck position in a guitar I'll be building soon. Hopefully it'll kick some major ***

 

[Zander]

...At the gig last night the band going on after us asked our lead singer "what kind of compressor or effect I was using? What a great tone! I can't believe how long he can sustain a note!"...

...The magnetic pull will mess with the harmonics and sustain...

...The point is, if the string can't fully vibrate, you won't get a full tone. Trying to make up for it with "hotter" pups simply mask the problem.

I suggest people take a look at the DiMarzio AirZone. 17.49 resistance, engineered specifically for minimal string-pull. This too is on my wish-list.

 

[guitarcomet]

I had an Air Norton once...a buddy talked me out of it.
I never even got a chance to put it in a guitar.

 

[kylendm]

Has anyone on here tried bare knuckle pickups? A lot of people rave about them, are they really worth the money?

 

[Zander]

I had an Air Norton once...a buddy talked me out of it.
I never even got a chance to put it in a guitar.

Woah! Whatever did he tell you? The Air Norton looks like a nice pickup.

What did you install in place of the Air Norton?