Are MTSers afraid of MIDI and switchers?

[ricky]

Marco, I am not against MIDI at all. Like graham, I use a GSP1101 in my rack and it is totally cool to change programs and modules with one foot switch. However, that was a simple set up which Youtube had a video for. I am totally lost in doing anything else but would love to learn. Is there a course called a Midiots guide to MIDI and Guitar or something like that? HOw about you taking a Montana vacation and coming here and showing me some cool stuff?

 

[MarcoR]

HOw about you taking a Montana vacation and coming here and showing me some cool stuff?

How's the mountain biking?

 

[ricky]

If you like biking above 10,000 feet and bears and moose and elk and waterfalls and high mountain lakes, I guess you could say that it is pretty good.

 

[withmittens]

frankly, I find the whole midi thing intimidating. I mean, I can run my keyboard controller into my computer and play a synth but anything beyond that I get confused and tired.

I'm looking into it again for switching and Marco has been helpful but I really don't get it. for the last 30 or so years I've owned old amps, guitars and pedals and have played off the cuff and naturally with other guitar players. Now, I'm the only guitar player in the band, trying to switch from my clean mod to a crunch to an overdriven mod while using some fuzz, delay and tremolo, all during one song...it gets to be a cluster f(uc)k.

so the midi thing looks like it can help me. But the last thing I want is another experience like I had with Line 6 Pod board. that was all tweaking and futzing around and no results.

that's why I have not taken the jump and look like an old fool. short of having someone set it up for me, i need a you tube tutorial or some kind of reference I can follow along with.

 

[MarcoR]

trying to switch from my clean mod to a crunch to an overdriven mod while using some fuzz, delay and tremolo, all during one song...it gets to be a cluster f(uc)k.

so the midi thing looks like it can help me.

Make a list of all your effects. Also, make a list of the different combinations of effects and amp settings (presets) you would need. We can figure out the most simple and functional system that will meet your requirements.

All you need is a midi controller and an audio router/switcher.
Setting up presets for PC commands is very easy. It gets more difficult when you want instant access switches on your controller. You can ease into it!

 

[kc2eeb]

And all for a bunch of people in a bar that couldn't pick the lead guitar out of the mix if you hit them over the head with it.

 

[withmittens]

Thanks again, Marco. wold you rather I PM you with this list or we do this here so someone else may benefit?

I appreciate the help

David

 

[MarcoR]

Thanks again, Marco. wold you rather I PM you with this list or we do this here so someone else may benefit?

I appreciate the help

David

Either is fine. If you post here, you may get other suggestions as well.

 

[MarcoR]

And all for a bunch of people in a bar that couldn't pick the lead guitar out of the mix if you hit them over the head with it.

Yep...

 

[withmittens]

ok,

so I have an RM50 with an RM4. currently I use an a/b switch to go between them. not so efficient because I have a switch for the RM50 pres and a switch for the RM4 pres stock stwitches

then on my pedal board I have
-fuzz--only use twice in a set
-overdrive1--use half the time
-overdrive2--sporadically
-overdrive3--half the time
-micro pog--a few times in a set
-delay1--always on- slap back
-delay2--half the time--echorec
-tremolo--a few times in a set

I'm not sure what combos i;d use consistently, maybe having the ability to make a few patches would help me figure it out. Most of the time I just use a couple at a time but there are a few intros and outros that require a mess. and I try to make each song tonally distinct

the thing with the pedals is that I'd probably use less of them if I have a great way to switch between mods. I guess with a preset I'm locked into that preset rather than changing on the fly, which is causing me problems anyway...
thats it.

 

[MarcoR]

Do you run your delays in the loop (after the preamps) or do you have them in front of your amp?

And I guess the important question is, how much are you willing to spend?

 

[scary groove]

I have to admit that I was intimidated by all that midi stuff. But since I had acquired an RM4 and an RT2/50, I could not resist jumping into the midi world. I got a VooDoo Labs GCX switcher and a Ground Control Pro. I read that manual 10x and I still was lost and about to give up. I placed a call to Voodoo Labs. They were the most helpful people I have ever encountered. They got my GCP dialed in. I connected all of my pedals. I have all kinds of programmed channels that select which module and which effects I want without having to turn on each one. It is the greatest setup. I will soon post a pic in the "post your rig" section.

 

[suphuckers]

I use an analog pedal that has 4 parallel effects loops. It has blend knobs and stomp switches for each loop. It has options for what happens when you turn off the loops. So you can have it trail the return, you can have it mute the return, or you can have it send a dry signal when you turn each of the loops off. I run it in the parallel loop. So it's like I have a master parallel loop with 4 sub parallel loops built into it. It's not as versatile as midi, but for time based effects it's pretty awesome. It 100% does not mess with my tone. I put my other rack effects like the EQ and etc in the series loop. I put multiple pedals in each loop that are similar... like for example a reverb. I have several reverbs in that "Reverb loop". I also have a pedal that I made myself that allows me to run one expression pedal to multiple effects. So I just don't see a need for midi. I'm not afraid of it, but until someone can show me how I can do all this easier or better with midi (That doesn't cost me $5000). I'll stick with the analog.

I mean I know midi lets you press 1 button to change 10 things but... how often to any of us really do that?

 

[scary groove]

The GCX and the GCP allow me to switch pedals individually or use presets to change 10 things at once. The GCX I got for under $200 and the GCP was under $300. So I am not sure where your estimation of $5000 is coming from. All of the gear other than those would be in my rig anyway. My RM4 was $350 and my RT2/50 was $450. I have about 7 pedals and an EQ that let's say on average were $100. Even with the ATA case and cables I am probably right around the $2000 mark. Even if I overestimated it at $2500, that still half.

 

[JKD]

Also had a GCX/GCP setup which cost under $600 including the cabling.

 

[suphuckers]

You guys telling me that thing can send a clean uneffected analog guitar signal out to All 8 loops and then blend them all back together, and send it back to the return on the amp 100% without messing with the tone? In other words lets say you want to add a phased effect. So you send a clean uneffected analog signal to the phaser of your choice. Then you can also send a clean signal to a Delay. 2 seperate signals. Then blend the 2 100% wet signals together, and send the blended signal back to the amp? ..and it's not digital? It's a true analog signal? ...and it can also send a clean uneffected tone back with it in parallel as well? I mean... if it can. Cool 8)

 

[suphuckers]

Err so can it? That was a serious question. (I'll look myself later)
I threw out that $5000, but I mean... My pedal was $250 and doesn't require any other hardware or cables at all.

 

[MarcoR]

I mean I know midi lets you press 1 button to change 10 things but... how often to any of us really do that?

I don't think I ever switch 10 things at once but it is very common to have 3 distinct sounds in a song. Each one of those sounds may have various combinations of effects, loops and modules selected. In my last band I was also the singer; singing and playing was difficult enough without having to tap dancing too.

You guys telling me that thing can send a clean uneffected analog guitar signal out to All 8 loops and then blend them all back together, and send it back to the return on the amp 100% without messing with the tone? In other words lets say you want to add a phased effect. So you send a clean uneffected analog signal to the phaser of your choice. Then you can also send a clean signal to a Delay. 2 seperate signals. Then blend the 2 100% wet signals together, and send the blended signal back to the amp? ..and it's not digital? It's a true analog signal? ...and it can also send a clean uneffected tone back with it in parallel as well? I mean... if it can. Cool

The GCX and most the other switcher/routers mentioned so far have the loops set up in serial.

The Sound Sculpture products allow you to program the path internally so you can run in series, parallel, series/parallel and even change the order or the effects.

You can still run your effect in parallel with the other switcher by adding a mini mixer. I use the RJM mini mixer for this.

As far as price, you can spend what you want to get what you need. A used midi mate controller is about $80 and a used GRX4 about $150. That?ll get you 4 programmable midi controlled loops; that?s quite a few potential combinations with channel switching. Say you simply want to go from a clean with chorus, reverb and delay to a dirty with just a light verb, then to a solo with a delay.

The GCX/GCP is widely used but you?ll need to put the pedals you want it to control in a rack which may not be ideal. The GCX also need a buffer mod to be more transparent from what I hear.

For withmittens solution, I would recommend a RJM mini effects gizmo for his pedal board pedals and a maybe a GRX4 (or a second mini effects gizmo) in the rack with his RM4. Then pick a controller that can do both PC and CC commands (like a midi mate). That would be around a $600 investment and provide 5 midi controlled loops in front of the amp for his drives and modulation effects and 4 or 5 loops after the preamp for toggling the preamps and time based effects.

If you don't mind running long cables from your pedal board, a Musicomlab EFX MKIII could be used as an all in one (controller/switcher/router) and would provide 10 audio loops arranged in a group of 6/4 (6 in front of the amp and 4 after).

 

[MarcoR]

Here's a link to that Musicomlab EFX MKIII:

http://www.loopersparadise.de/en/pro.php?p=1309

A lot of power in a very small footprint!

I should also mention, anyone getting into this should just buy bulk cable and make your own cables!

 

[j4q0]

The GCX also need a buffer mod to be more transparent from what I hear.
.

Do you have any experience with this one?
I'm looking to do the same thing here as withmittens but with my 5153 and instead of the pedals I use the Rocktron Replifex infront (same as pedals I guess) and an Intellifex after the RM4 going into the loop of the 5153.
The thing I didn't like about the GCX is that it doesn't do patches, you need the MIDI foot controller to acivate its loops in different combinations to create the patches, in patches, Is this correct?