Diezel/Bogner Low End

[sargentcrunch]

What makes Diezel/Bogner/insert other boutique metal amp here power amps so special? Could a mod be done to an Rm50 to make it similar?

 

[Mattfig]

You could upgrade the power section....Don't know of any mods but I'm sure those guys could come up with something for you...I think you may be better going after modules geared toward pushing that low end...The SG Afterlife has a ton of girth compared to many others for example...

 

[sargentcrunch]

Yeah, I have the D-Zilla which I love and it really pushes the low end and still sounds amazing, I was just wondering how much I am missing, because I always hear how a lot of the oomph from those amps come from the power section.

 

[webrthomson]

What makes Diezel/Bogner/insert other boutique metal amp here power amps so special? Could a mod be done to an Rm50 to make it similar?

IMHO - a 50 watt amp is never going to get the low end push of any of the mentioned amps which are all 100 watt (XTC / VH4), 120 watt (Uberschall/ Hagen) or 180 watt (Herbert). If you really want that sort of ground shaking there is no substitute for the bass response from a huge power section.

Even from a dual to triple recto there is a quite noticeable jump in this sort of bass response and we can be (reasonably) sure that the preamp circuits are the same there

Essentially the amplification of bass frequencies requires far more watts to get you the impact and clarity that you are aiming for! Which is why if you check out Bass guitar amps even the small ones are two and three hundred watts.

However all is not lost as you can be cunning, try larger cabinets with more speakers, think oversized 4x12?s, like those made by Boogie for the recto or the Krank ones.

Go for large bottle tubes ? 6550 or KT88?s ? these should give you more grunt (okay a bit of a generalisation - sure to get lampooned by the tubes fascists for that one).

Try moving placement of the speakers, point them at walls at varying distances from the wall itself, lean them against walls, isolate them totally from the ground (see Joe Bonamassa?s setup for an example of this, but rather than the auralex ground foam you can use beer crates) etc. and see what you like you will be surprised by some of the differences just from the positioning of the speakers.

You could look at replacing the transformers in the RM50 with after-market upgrades, say Mercury Magnetics, and while this may improve the amps tone I would still think you are simply lacking the number of tubes to get the push that would be on par with the amps listed.

Generally I run a Mod50 (with MM transformers) and for 90% of gigs it can take on all comers with ease. However if I know I?m going to need the sort of grunt that we are talking about here I take my rack (M4->Boogie 2:90 -> 2x1960AV) and I?ve never had any issues making the floor move with that!

 

[sargentcrunch]

Thanks for the long response webrthomson, a lot of information. I never thought of the watts influencing the low end but that does make a lot of sense, considering the bass amp stuff you brought up. I definitely need to get a 4x12 cabinet, I only have a 1x12 right now so it doesn't have the depth and punch of a 4x12. I was looking at kt88's earlier, would they make a noticeable difference for heavier music? I don't really play anything clean so I don't need a real jangly clean, I am just after a great thick distortion tone. I feel I already have a great distortion tone from my D-Zilla but it can't hurt to try to make it even better!

 

[webrthomson]

Thanks for the long response webrthomson, a lot of information. I never thought of the watts influencing the low end but that does make a lot of sense, considering the bass amp stuff you brought up. I definitely need to get a 4x12 cabinet, I only have a 1x12 right now so it doesn't have the depth and punch of a 4x12. I was looking at kt88's earlier, would they make a noticeable difference for heavier music? I don't really play anything clean so I don't need a real jangly clean, I am just after a great thick distortion tone. I feel I already have a great distortion tone from my D-Zilla but it can't hurt to try to make it even better!

KT88's are almost hi-fi in their response, they don't really distort like other tubes - don't know why it's just my experience of them. However if you?re getting the sound you like from the preamp then you will get a bit more grunt out of the KT88's. Some interesting links here:

http://mtsforum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?t=17310&highlight=kt88

Tubes in general here too:
http://mtsforum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?t=16214&highlight=kt88

Worth talking to Rob at JF and tell him where you want to get to and he can probably advise you on tubes and speaker combinations that might work well for you.

Also do the movement of your cab (even if a 1x12) - I was sceptical too, then I did it and it really does make quite an impact

 

[frigolajm]

Check out this video on a Randall Satan amp. I think the 6550C are going to get you the closest to a Diezelish tone. I plan on putting them in my RM100 to replicate that same low end. I cant imagine the power amps between the Satan and the RM100 being all that different....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjPE7oTwVug

I think they sound closest to this Diezel below

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otCs7zIWRlc&list=LLre8V0BADZMbUi4gmWmI7Tg