Its been a long journey with MTS...

[Mike P]

I deal with high end production libraries that will not allow MIDI brass sections and other similar instrumentation and would never allow fake, digital guitars.

Yet autotune on vocals is acceptable? Go figure?

What's surprising is that Disney hasn't bought out Celemony or Antares.

 

[GtrGeorge!]

Keep things tube/human

That's an excellent proclomation for 2012.


GtrGeorge

 

[Hamner1]

I look forward to the day when modeling totally arrives.

I don't. Not because I am a tube purist, but that would be the death nail for tube amps.

The day modeling arrives.....death nail for tube amps?... Those are RETARDED statements.

What AMPS are these guys trying to emulate. F'N TUBE AMPS! If tube amps werent the bench mark here then why and what are the modelers trying their damnedest to COPY??

:?
Um yeah not really sure where/how to take that. I think you patched together 2 partial statements from 2 different people. My statement was a hypothetical thing assuming at some point modelers would mimick every nuance of tube amps & analog technology (that includes, tone, feel, air movement, voltage changes, etc). Is that going to happen in the next 2,3,5,10 years... probably not. I would go so far as to say not a chance in hell. But beyond that who knows. "Death Nail" was maybe too harsh. Likely there will always be a market for it, even if that market is for the ultra rich, people with disposable $$, studios, or other production facilities/entities.

 

[Mike P]

http://forum.fractalaudio.com/axe-f...vie-brutal-finished-axefx2-hybrid-set-up.html

This guy recently posted at Gearslutz with his song. The responses, were of course, similar to mine throughout thread.

He made a ton of excuses, hemmed and hawed, etc.

The bottom line, once again, is that Axe FX is a compromise, plain and simple. If that works for you or anyone else, it's all good. But please, don't try to convince anyone that it's something more than it is, which is a digital emulation with flaws.

 

[Mike P]

I think it's safe to say that modelling is on the rise. It's just the way of things.

True and accurate modeling will happen with a VST long before it happens with a dedicated box. With Intel chip speeds surpassing Moore's Law, it's only a matter of time before a company like NI is able to program every nuance, capture IR's and emulate pickup drag and resistance.

Using decades old Sharc chips puts Axe Fx way behind the curve. The future, if you will, is in 100 core Intel chips, not chips slower than my iPhone 4s.

 

[GtrGeorge!]

Geez Louise..
just when I thought this thread will resolve.

MikeP you said "with Flaws"
Well, I guess if u compare AXE Fx against the real deal (which MikeP was) ...but if you're creative..and WE ARE IN A CREATIVE BIZNESS,RIGHT?..then there might be instances where a digital simulation might work better in a certain mix. I have had this happen.
What I'm saying is,there may be times when you want a Fake Plexi...
its like how Men are attracted to totally fake boobs...
I mean they are totally fake looking...but that doesn't mean there aren't people who desire THAT look.

To quote U2 "You're the real thing..even better than the real thing"
GtrGeorge

 

[BigBrewtus]

Geez Louise..
just when I thought this thread will resolve.

MikeP you said "with Flaws"
Well, I guess if u compare AXE Fx against the real deal (which MikeP was) ...but if you're creative..and WE ARE IN A CREATIVE BIZNESS,RIGHT?..then there might be instances where a digital simulation might work better in a certain mix. I have had this happen.
What I'm saying is,there may be times when you want a Fake Plexi...
its like how Men are attracted to totally fake boobs...
I mean they are totally fake looking...but that doesn't mean there aren't people who desire THAT look.

To quote U2 "You're the real thing..even better than the real thing"
GtrGeorge

Wow thats the greatest comparison yet!! 8) :lol: :lol: :lol:
Hugh Hefner would never use the fake ones :wink: Yeah right.

 

[GtrGeorge!]

Brewtus,
I pride myself on connecting with people...I'm a pretty good front person,on account of that.
..and Fake boobs have their place in this World...aint it the truth????

GtrGeorge

 

[rhequiem]

Mike, I checked for this (out of curiosity) on Gearslutz, but only found this thread http://www.gearslutz.com/board/work...22-new-song-movie-finished-hard-rock-ish.html, which didn't have any responses. Did he post it in another section? I don't visit Gearslutz too often, so I might be looking in the wrong area. I just did a search by username "Guittarzzan".

I'm still not sure who's trying to convince you to use an Axe? Besides maybe the OP who already apologized for saying "it should be good enough for you" (which I agree was slightly out of line). I am fairly certain that I have specifically mentioned in a previous post that I couldn't care less what anyone else uses gear-wise, you included, obviously. You have your opinions, just like others here have theirs. Yours are right for you, others' are right for them. This is obviously a forum for a tube-based product, and there will naturally be a slant in that direction, based on the population that comprises the membership of this population (myself included). The same can be said if this thread went down on the Fractal Forums (which it has many, many times, I assure you).

Hope you all had a good first day of the New Year

http://forum.fractalaudio.com/axe-f...vie-brutal-finished-axefx2-hybrid-set-up.html

This guy recently posted at Gearslutz with his song. The responses, were of course, similar to mine throughout thread.

He made a ton of excuses, hemmed and hawed, etc.

The bottom line, once again, is that Axe FX is a compromise, plain and simple. If that works for you or anyone else, it's all good. But please, don't try to convince anyone that it's something more than it is, which is a digital emulation with flaws.

[/url]

 

[Mike P]

Mike, I checked for this (out of curiosity) on Gearslutz, but only found this thread http://www.gearslutz.com/board/work...22-new-song-movie-finished-hard-rock-ish.html, which didn't have any responses. Did he post it in another section? I don't visit Gearslutz too often, so I might be looking in the wrong area. I just did a search by username "Guittarzzan".

I'm still not sure who's trying to convince you to use an Axe? Besides maybe the OP who already apologized for saying "it should be good enough for you" (which I agree was slightly out of line). I am fairly certain that I have specifically mentioned in a previous post that I couldn't care less what anyone else uses gear-wise, you included, obviously. You have your opinions, just like others here have theirs. Yours are right for you, others' are right for them. This is obviously a forum for a tube-based product, and there will naturally be a slant in that direction, based on the population that comprises the membership of this population (myself included). The same can be said if this thread went down on the Fractal Forums (which it has many, many times, I assure you).

Hope you all had a good first day of the New Year

You, too!

The reason I brought it up was because I felt the initial link was was a little misleading and didn't provide enough detail about that particular recording.

First off, he used a Randall power amp and mic'd a cab - it wasn't direct from the Axe FX II. I didn't care for the sound (or the overall production) but he's using Axe FX as a preamp as opposed to an "All in One" solution. Secondly, he had that track mastered, so it wasn't your typical "Bedroom" production (even though, once again, I didn't care for the sound as whole).

My opinion is that in the "right" hands (i.e., producer, guitarist, et al), a much better sounding product could have been produced with a tube amp. Also, if that's a better representation of what Axe FX offers, again, it's not for me.

Happy New Year!

 

[Mike P]

Geez Louise..
just when I thought this thread will resolve.

MikeP you said "with Flaws"
Well, I guess if u compare AXE Fx against the real deal (which MikeP was) ...but if you're creative..and WE ARE IN A CREATIVE BIZNESS,RIGHT?..then there might be instances where a digital simulation might work better in a certain mix. I have had this happen.
What I'm saying is,there may be times when you want a Fake Plexi...
its like how Men are attracted to totally fake boobs...
I mean they are totally fake looking...but that doesn't mean there aren't people who desire THAT look.

To quote U2 "You're the real thing..even better than the real thing"
GtrGeorge

I don't know who you are because you've not revealed your identity. You've stated you have issues with me in this very thread but for reasons unknown to me.

Having said that, I have NO idea if YOU are in the "creative business", as per above. I can unequivocally state that in 25 years of recording, I have never chosen a digital emulation over a tube amp. Never, ever, ever.

 

[GtrGeorge!]

MikeP,
yes, I am in this bizness...and I have used digital guitar sounds and analog and ,as I stated before, its my opinion that each can work out well, "There are times when you might want a fake-Plexi sound".

I chimed in on this thread mainly because I do know some very narrowly focused tube amp people and while THEY are entitled to their opinion, so are people who just shelled out 2,700 for their AxeFx (The Holidays were about a weeks ago,...)
So let a person be happy with their Toys, ok?
That's all.


GtrGeorge

 

[crankyrayhanky]

They can go be happy with their Fractal Forum buddies
Here at tube central, no need to sugar coat it- they'll be outdated in 2 years, obsolete in 10 years.

I have an 11R that I actually like for some purposes, but I know it will be an fx only machine/coaster in a few years. Go ask the Ultra owners how happy they are their gear just got devlaued by 30% the day the II came out. For 2700, I can buy a boutique amp of my choice that will never get that kind of a devlaue hit, and will wreck a 01010101 tone.

Cool unit? Yes, but totally overpriced. This gimmicky di guitar tone that does 100 amps has been around since at least my Roland GP8 in the 80s

 

[rhequiem]

Not like buying a new RM100 for $1700 and then having to sell it for $300-$400 (20-25% resale value) here, right?

I don't think resale value is a fair way to judge the quality of gear. That seems to be more a supply/demand issue to me. And it seems like demand for Axe IIs are pretty high. Even the Ultras were selling for $1800-ish (~90% resale value) prior to the II's release. And IIs seem to be going for about $2500 (96% resale value) without too much issue. That's pretty astonishing, if you ask me. Granted, there are some tube amps that I've seen that sell for pretty close to their retail price (Camerons and Friedmans come to mind), but those seem to be the exception. But really, that's what the Axe seems to be - a boutique piece of digital gear, as odd as that sounds to type hehe

What boutique amp would you buy would $2700? Not a Cameron or Friedman (unless you got a great deal on a used one) and certainly not a Dumble I love boutique amps, but man those things can get crazy pricey! If the Axe II doesn't work out for me, I am going to see about trading it for a killer amp, if I don't sell it outright. I was thinking like a Fortin-modded Marshall or maybe just a Fortin original, if I can find one in that price range.

 

[Mike P]

MikeP,
yes, I am in this bizness...

Color me skeptical. You've said there's something you "don't like" about me and made it public, without every qualifying it, as if everyone that posts is well aware of this "issue".

Also, if you work in the music business, why are you using a user name? I use my real name, as do most people working in the business. Why no link to your work, website or identity?

and I have used digital guitar sounds and analog and ,as I stated before, its my opinion that each can work out well, "There are times when you might want a fake-Plexi sound".

Work? Well sure, it can work. But my opinion, which is based on years of experience with tube amps and emulations, I've never chosen a emulation over a tube amp.

I chimed in on this thread mainly because I do know some very narrowly focused tube amp people and while THEY are entitled to their opinion, so are people who just shelled out 2,700 for their AxeFx (The Holidays were about a weeks ago,...)

First off, I've never stated that people aren't entitled to their opinions or that they should not use Axe FX or any other emulation. What I've stated repeatedly is that they're not for me at this time. They are a compromise, plain and simple. I can't imagine anyone in the world that has a Friedman Marsha AND an Axe FX that would choose the Axe over the Marsha. That's just impossible for me to believe.

So let a person be happy with their Toys, ok?

"Toys?" Huh? Guitars, amps, preamps, microphones, etc. are TOOLS, not "Toys".

 

[crankyrayhanky]

Not like buying a new RM100 for $1700 and then having to sell it for $300-$400 (20-25% resale value) here, right?
.

lol, u got me

What boutique amp would you buy would $2700? I was thinking like a Fortin-modded Marshall or maybe just a Fortin original, if I can find one in that price range

I have no experience with hi end amps, I'd probably just grab a FJA or VoDoo modded Recto/Marshall/5150

Understand I just enjoy bashing on the OP troll who dances off to a better party...if you have an AXE FX I'm sure you're having fun. I tend to throw my money into modded mods & guitars

 

[Mike P]

Not like buying a new RM100 for $1700 and then having to sell it for $300-$400 (20-25% resale value) here, right?

I bought a brand new RM100 for $750.00. They were $1,700 at one point?

I don't think resale value is a fair way to judge the quality of gear.

I completely disagree.

I paid a certain price for my Vintech preamps and compressor, prices for Distressors, 1176's, LA2A, Soundelux, AKG, Royer mics, etc. and so on. None of those items have lost value and in many cases, they appreciated in value.

The same can be said for my guitars and basses. My 1993 Les Paul Premium Plus top is worth two to three times as much as when I purchased it.

On the flip side, I lost my *** on ADAT's. I paid $2,000 new in 1995 and sold them for $600 each just a few short years later.

Resale value is extremely important to me, especially when I'm forking over thousands upon thousands of dollars and I think it's a clear indicator of value. My Les Paul will be worth more in 10 years than it's worth now and quite honestly, I don't think the same will be said for Axe FX II. Do you?

 

[rhequiem]

Not at one point, but still are, at least at Musician's Friend

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/search/search.jsp?question=randall+rm100+mts+guitar+amp

I'm sure you can find them cheaper (a very quick search found them at around $1200), though.

Oh no, I certainly don't think the Axe II will be worth $2500 in 10 years. I never implied that it would appreciate in value, nor suggested that I was of that opinion. I wasn't making a case for the Axe's value, presently or in the future, just giving Ray some guff about the MTS resale value in particular That said, the current-production Axes have historically (I understand it's a brief history) have held their values incredibly well. That's probably due more to the obvious supply/demand issues that are present more than anything else. There just aren't that many to go around, at least in proportion to the people trying to buy them.

From my limited experience (I am not a collector or anything), buying very high-quality gear (in which the technology doesn't radically change every few years, like digital products, for example ) is the best bet as far as resale value is concerned (guitars, microphones, speakers, etc). However, many people can't afford that, and that can limit the potential buyer pool. I just try to find good deals on used stuff, as you don't tend to lose too much if/when you decide to resale it. Disagree all you like, but there are so many variables to resale value that any broad-sweeping assumption about it is going to be incorrect. I would think gear that appreciates is generally much more rare than gear that depreciates.

I can't imagine anyone in the world that has a Friedman Marsha AND an Axe FX that would choose the Axe over the Marsha. That's just impossible for me to believe.

I'm not sure about the Friedman Marsha in particular (I would love to try one of those, myself!), but it's not terribly uncommon to read posts from people on the Fractal Forums who have sold off their tube amp collections after getting an Axe. I recall reading a post from one user in the last month or so who had a fairly impressive history with tube amps (impressible in that in ranged from common stuff to higher-end boutique stuff) who was able to get his Axe sounding close enough to those that he decided to sell off his amps, also. I am not sure how these particular users are running their Axes, but most hardcore tube guys that try the Axe seem to tend to favor it with a poweramp and cab. I was able to get the Axe II to pretty much identically mimic my EVH 5150 III that I had not too long ago (I ran it through the 5153's power section), which is why I ended up selling it not too long after.

 

[GtrGeorge!]

Mike P.
all I have said here is that we dont agree on some things...thats nothing personal. Thats all..it was.is nothing more than that.
I respect your opinion,dude..I just don't always agree with it, that's all.
GtrGeorge

 

[Mike P]

Mike P.
all I have said here is that we dont agree on some things...thats nothing personal. Thats all..it was.is nothing more than that.
I respect your opinion,dude..I just don't always agree with it, that's all.
GtrGeorge

Hey George,

That's cool. So basically, you're like everyone else on the forum?

Happy New Year, Dude!