JF Trilogy Thoughts - Almost made a HUGE mistake!

[Big Daddy]

I?m sure LoD21 will have more in depth observations in the near future, but I wanted to take a moment and share some thoughts on this perplexing and powerful mod while I have a few free moments.

About a month ago we got a JF EV Trilogy. Our initial tests weren?t very positive, so we contacted Rob. As soon as we started addressing the issues we had with the mod he stopped us and asked that we ship it back. It was kinda noisy, which in my experience is unusual for one of JF?s mods. Rob assumed it must have gotten damaged in shipping and assured us from our evaluation that ?something is not right with it.?, so we sent it back. Just as he figured, there were issues, he fixed it quickly and shipped it right back.

When we received it the second time it definitely sounded better and a lot closer to his descriptions, but we still had issues with the overall sound of the module in comparison to our other high gain modules and to our experience with 5150?s themselves. Once again, we contacted Rob

He assured us that the unit was 100%. When we asked about tweaks he explained that the Trilogy was so tricked out straight out of the box, that there was almost no room for additional modification. Needless to say, we were a little bummed out because we really thought this mod would be the missing piece that we were looking for in our collection.

Now I gotta give Rob credit here. Between LoD and I, we must have bombarded him with a dozen emails over a short period of time trying to figure out why this module didn?t sound the way we expected it to. I understand that I am not buying a EV 5150 III. I have been modular since Bruce introduced the technology and I know that these are replications, not originals. I understand that this is Rob?s take on the 5150 line and that there is a certain amount of personal taste involved in the design of any mod, but in my experience he?s usually much closer to the tone he was trying to replicate than he was on the Trilogy. Everything was professionally presented, but we were critical while trying to be fair. Rob responded to every email, every phone call, in a timely and professional matter. He never seemed irritated and seemed just as determined as we were to make us happy with his work. I wanted to love this module? you have NO idea how badly I wanted to love this module.

After a few weeks of back and forth LoD and I were talking about what to do and my opinion was just to resell or trade the module and have him do a custom module for us that was more up our alley. When I voiced this opinion to LoD, he reluctantly agreed and we found a taker for a trade.

The night before we were supposed to ship the Trilogy off to it?s new home I get a phone call. LoD?s wife is out of town, so he had some extra time on his hands. He freed up his evening and decided to make one last effort to tweak in the Trilogy before he gave up. He seemed a little unsure of his results and wanted a second opinion. After soaking him for a bribe of cigarettes ? I?m trying to quit DOH ? cucumbers, tomatoes ? all from his garden ? and the promise of an icy cold Vitamin Water Zero, I figured I shouldn?t push my luck and gave in. BOY am I glad I did!!!

I walked into our practice area and what I heard was simply awe inspiring! The Trilogy was a different module than the one I played through just a few days earlier. Everything we expected from this module was there. EVERYTHING! I was floored! We got 5150 scooped mid 90?s Skrape tone ? a tone that we have been searching for since the frickin? 90?s! We got 5150 III Sevendust tone. We got everything in between. Needless to say, I am beside myself with both glee and humility. I am SO happy to love this module and so embarrassed that I almost let it slip through my fingers without finding the tone that was lurking just beneath the surface.

It seems, by design, this module is a different animal. Because of the gain stage(s) and pot values on certain tone controls this module behaves differently than many of my other modules. This module actually behaves like an actual Peavey does. Who would have thought? LOL

Unfortunately, I don?t have time to go into how we found the ?Grail? settings, I will leave that to LoD, because he was the one who accomplished it, but I will say ?Holy ****, what a GREAT Module!?.

I have noticed some guys flipping their Trilogy?s very quickly, I was almost one of them! This module needs to be approached differently to yield maximum results. The mids are SUPER touchy and if set improperly they will eat the lows and give you the illusion that it lacks low end when it does not. The mids and low end both effect the amount of perceived gain I the module as well. I have never heard a module behave this way, but Rob has asserted that this was all by design in the effort to replicate 5150?s as accurately as possible

I just wanted to get this out there for discussion

Talk amongst yourselves

H

 

[gag halfrunt]

Wow, very cool post. Thanks for the observations.

I was one of the guys who sold his Trilogy quickly, and now you are making me think I was hasty. I'm sure I made the same mistakes you guys did, because I could never get it to sound like I knew it should.

Thanks for more Trilogy GAS. Again.

 

[Whoopysnorp]

I'm soon to be the owner of a Trilogy, so I'd love to hear more details about how I should approach dialing it in.

 

[zepplin490]

i was close to ordering a trilogy in my last batch of mods that i sent to robs but i changed my order to an erect and an xtc instead... maybe ill get one with the next batch i really love that sevendust tone!
-mp-

 

[JayDA]

When I first loaded my Trilogy up, I experienced the same thing, I just wasn't blown away. It took quite a few hours of tweaking before I "got it". For me it was all about the mids, it just took awhile to get it there, and honestly the knob positions I settled on are very "non traditional". But hey...whatever works right?

The other thing people may be forgetting, is how much gain is on tap. If you're used to cranking the gain knob all the way up and leaving it there, you're going to have to rethink that with this mod. To much gain will just turn the tone to mush, especially if you do the "dime the bass and scoop out the mids" thing.

 

[Oyster]

Glad to hear some more good feed back about Rob. I will be contacting him soon on a Super Clean, XTC, and Ultra Lead.

 

[Whoopysnorp]

The other thing people may be forgetting, is how much gain is on tap. If you're used to cranking the gain knob all the way up and leaving it there, you're going to have to rethink that with this mod. To much gain will just turn the tone to mush, especially if you do the "dime the bass and scoop out the mids" thing.

Yeah, I'm honestly a little concerned that this one may have way too much gain for me. On normal high-gain modules (SG or JF XTC, Salvo Stonerverb/Masholdano, etc) I never tend to turn the gain past 1:00. On a SUPER high-gain module I bet even that will be excessive.

 

[Jaded Faith]

A very well written review Howard and glad to see my efforts to get you guys on the right track worked out in the end. The Trilogy is not your average mod (actually, I should say that for ever single one of the new releases this year because they are all on a new sonic level) and you can't approach it as such. It does a LOT of different things and you need to take the time to get to understand what each feature does and it's impact on the tone. I'll leave you with 3 thoughts:

1) The mids on this module indeed go to "20" compared to almost every mod you ever tried. Keep this in your mind and set the knobs with your ears, not your eyes.

2) The folks who have been most disappointed with this mod are the ones who see the name "EV Trilogy" and think "Brown Sound". Rest assured, even with his name on them I have NEVER heard a 5150 that made me say "oh yeah, this totally sounds like EVH!" I work on over 10 of these a year and am quite familiar with the line.

3) I have been completely hush about it out of respect to their privacy, but Sevendust is recording their next album locally as we speak. Let's just say the studio owners are very close friends/customers and the Trilogy was smiled upon favorably as the guitar tones are being dialed in. 8)

 

[Jaded Faith]

Yeah, I'm honestly a little concerned that this one may have way too much gain for me. On normal high-gain modules (SG or JF XTC, Salvo Stonerverb/Masholdano, etc) I never tend to turn the gain past 1:00. On a SUPER high-gain module I bet even that will be excessive.

Two things go in your favor with this concern: working on the Rhythm channel and 5150 II mode. There's something for most people in this mod.

 

[Big Daddy]

Two things go in your favor with this concern: working on the Rhythm channel and 5150 II mode. There's something for most people in this mod.

I agree. I'm a gainhead and Channel II, while tonally excellent, doesn't quite give me what I want gain wise. Thank God for channels I and III

H

 

[Big Daddy]

When I first loaded my Trilogy up, I experienced the same thing, I just wasn't blown away. It took quite a few hours of tweaking before I "got it". For me it was all about the mids, it just took awhile to get it there, and honestly the knob positions I settled on are very "non traditional". But hey...whatever works right?

The other thing people may be forgetting, is how much gain is on tap. If you're used to cranking the gain knob all the way up and leaving it there, you're going to have to rethink that with this mod. To much gain will just turn the tone to mush, especially if you do the "dime the bass and scoop out the mids" thing.

Sounds like you had the same expirience we did. The mids are touchy, but once you get them dialed in WATCH OUT!!! LOL

H

 

[LoD21]

Big Daddy pretty much covered it. I so badly wanted a 5150 and was totally bummed out that the Trilogy wouldn't get it for me. We have Rectos we love and a Mamba for a different high high gain flavor. But for the stuff we play that 5150/6505 tone was clearly a deficiency in our arsenal.

Honestly i thought the Trilogy was a HUGE disappointment initially. I lacked that power and punch of a thunderous high gain head. I felt it even lacked gain compared to the actual 5150's. The eq seemed like it was incapable of achieving any sort of ear candy. Just could never dial it in better than 75% of where i needed it. It was just blah. While it seemed like it might work well in the studio it just didn't feel great in the room. This was a first for me with any of Rob's work. As Big Daddy said Rob bent over backwards. I spent so much time emailing with him i was afraid he would send a hitman to my house because i might be irritating the hell out of him but he was super cool.

When i agreed to let the module go immediately got buyers remorse so i took a last crack at it.

Usually BD and i compare everything to our very custom Recto's which you may have seen us rave about a few months back. So far the only high gainer out of many that even came close was a Mamba SE and my old Engl 520 Egnater modified Preamp/power amp set up. Not many modules even shake a stick at that Recto for high gain. It's not your mother and father's Recto at all, and it's not like the Erect either. Rob put some special juju on it for us.

So I started comparing the Recto and Trilogy side by side. I started working to try and match the eq frequencies to where I like the recto. I got pretty close even though the knobs were in far different positions. I tweaked the rest from there.

The key to this module is all about the mids and mid sweep. I literally have the mids at about 7:30 and the sweep at between 10 & 11 oclock depending on if i'm using the I or III setting. Traditionally I run mids from 11-2oclock on any amp i have used for the last 20 years. If you set this thing wrong in the mids it will get in it's own way and cover up all the positive attributes of this module.

Here are the exact excerpts of what I emailed Rob regarding my findings. I think you will get the idea. After all of the trouble and complaints to Rob I was frankly embarrassed and owed him a serious apology and detailed explanation.

Rob,

I had to turn the mids down almost entirely to about 7:30. Never in my life have I set mids that low. The way these mids react with the rest of the module is so odd I would have never even thought to try such settings. I also discovered that the mid, mid sweep, and treble are incredibly sensitive. Traditionally the difference between 5 and 6 is almost nothing more than minor taste. With the trilogy 5.5 truly differs from 5 or 6. (per Rob this was by design to replicate a true 5150, he used a much more sensitive pot for mids-be care because a half a notch off and you might hastily dial right past your sweet spot and decide to sell your module foolishly like i almost did).

Also, that power & punch that Big Daddy attributed to low end but I was unable to quite define (because for me it wasn't the lows it just sounded week and anemic), I found that too. Not by messing with the bass or tight switch but again by dialing out almost all of the mids and paying very close attention to the mid sweep. Until you set the mids you cannot even make a decision on the tight position. From there, the tight position relies on the I vs. III setting and vice versa. I will also mention that in eliminating the mids (and again I traditionally push mids) there was a perception of significant increase in gain and the buzz-saw effect I was looking for. Are you sitting down? On the III setting I actually had to back off the gain to 3 o?clock (because as another member here mentioned it can get mushy with too much. Prior to this i complained to Rob it didn't have enough gain-go figure!)

This module in some ways gets in its own way of shining through if not careful. It?s seems that if the user fails to perfect the mid and mid sweep everything will disappoint no matter what you try with every other knob and switch in any number of combinations.

For me as a "high gain only" guy I still find no use for Rhythm or II setting but that?s 1000% fine. I'm sure guys who want versatility will love those options. I personally would have been happy all along with a one trick pony. The voice switch is a bit bright for me even with mids at almost zero and treble at noon, on the I setting (which is darker than the III). The I setting really seems to do the trick overall. The III is totally modern high gain for Sevendust. We run the bass almost cranked no matter what and like to toggle best between the tight and normal setting depending on I vs. III and based on chug factor in milliseconds.

Lastly I should mention that prior to your initial repairs I tried the standard JJ tubes, then the Ruby AC5?s. At that time the Ruby?s made an improvement but not enough since there was a true technical issue. Since the repair I have been working with only the JJ?s which coincidentally are my best/favorite set from the my Recto. Throughout most of tonight?s testing I became satisfied enough to keep the module based on the JJ?es. For the hell of it I threw the Ruby?s in (which sound terrible in the Recto and other modules i have) and the sky opened up and I saw the light.

At the end of the day I must say this was a very new and different experience tweaking this thing in. Dialing it in required the most non-traditional approach from what I have ever needed to do in the past with any other amp. I guess I got lucky. I sure am glad I took another stab at it because i/we both really dig this module. It?s been one heck of a road. I apologize for writing you a book but #1 I feel I owed you a serious explanation, and #2 if my experience can aid future customer satisfaction then so be it. My only suggestion would be to create a short set up guide for the Trilogy warning users that dialing this thing in may require a very non-traditional approach.


At the end of the day, i think this may be my absolute favorite module. It would have been a shame if i sold it and missed out. Bottom line if you are thinking about selling your Trilogy, give it a second chance, PM me if you need help. If you have been apprehensive to buy one because you see so many folks selling theirs shortly after their purchase consider our experience here because they may have had the same issue. If you want high gain, tight, punchy, modern metal, with chug for days, sh!t loads of gain, and great clarity and harmonic response give the Trilogy a shot and get yourself a set of Ruby AC5's. You will not be sorry.

 

[JayDA]

2) The folks who have been most disappointed with this mod are the ones who see the name "EV Trilogy" and think "Brown Sound". Rest assured, even with his name on them I have NEVER heard a 5150 that made me say "oh yeah, this totally sounds like EVH!" I work on over 10 of these a year and am quite familiar with the line.

I was working in a music store when the original came out, and I never understood why anyone would think "brown sound" when they heard a 5150. The minute I fired one up, I new the "metal kids" were going to be all over that amp...oh wait...I was one of those kids back then :lol: . But seriously, I had an original one for a few years, and I think Rob pretty much nailed it.

 

[Whoopysnorp]

Thanks for that review. That's good to know, because I almost always just stick the mids at about 2:00 on my MTS modules and leave them there.

 

[audiomidijace]

Great info here. I haven't tried one of these yet, but I will at the LA Amp Show next month! When I first try a new module, first I load it with either two EH12AX7 or one with a Tung-Sol in V2. Then I set every knob to noon and any switches to a neutral position if there is one. After that I start on the switches and try different combinations. Then I start making adjustments with the knobs. Usually my mids are between 10 and 2 O'Clock. So I likely would have missed the magic in this one. I guess I'll find out next month!
Again, thanks for all of the info!

 

[LoD21]

I used to use the EH tubes exclusively as well. Last couple years I have purchased dozens of them and only 20% of them shined. The JJ's were never a favorite but more consistent and solid for most modules. Now and then though a Ruby AC5 Chinese wakes up a module like it did in the Trilogy or my JF XTC but not so much in any other. Also In Big Daddy's Mamba SE he had an older Mullard in V2 straight from Anthony. When you change out that tube the module goes sterile and looses it's bounce and it loses a a great deal of its sexiness. So i tried it in all of my other modules and it made them all worse.

So yeh some of these modules are so touchy the little things make the most difference.

At the end of the day if you decide to invest into a mod you really should research to find out what you want and then trust that modders R &D then fully to commit to trying to make that module work for you. What may usually work for you as far as settings, tubes, etc might not ALWAYS work. Also keep in mind that these modders are pretty spot on with their descriptions but what they cannot account for is the other 20 variables in all of our rigs that differ.

This would probably account for why my tone has a slight edge over Big Daddy's

 

[Mattfig]

Cool post....So I'll just post it here. Open invite to my place for mod jam.

You boys know who I'm talking to. I know everyone's schedules are always fucked up but I'm free tomorrow (saturday) and you're welcome here or we could meet...Short notice is how I roll... :lol:

Any takers?

 

[ricknasty1985]

Any takers?

On my way homeboy!

 

[Kevrock25]

My trilogy is my go to modern metal tone. It cuts live and has a awesome low thump. you should NEVER NEVER turn the gain past 2 o'clock. Just like a real 5150 gain is useless over that. I found that I like III bass around noon mid around 10 to 11 o'clock and treble to taste mid sweep all the way counter clockwise. That's on a v30 cab. I just got a wampler triple wreck pedal and as awesome as that pedal is the trilogy is STILL my got to high gainer on down tuned stuff. It just takes alittle getting used to. It's not as easy as the real 5150 set it on 666 and rock out amp. Just like the real one the magic is in the presence and resonance knobs. The magic on this mod is way more than one or two knobs it's the way they work all altogether. That's just my 2 cents
Btw I also had a xmg+ that lasted 2 days against the trilogy and then it got traded.

 

[Mattfig]

Any takers?

On my way homeboy!

Just tell me when your flight lands.