Some Uber SG bragging/reviewing/promoting

[drewiv]

Just got to show off Scott's simply amazing work.. Mostly wanted to pay my respects and do some bragging as well.

I was fortunate enough, after a lot of persuasion and more than a year of waiting, to have Scott build me a very special dual channel ubershall module. I wanted the regular afterlife on the A channel but a more solo-oriented B channel, this was to become the new "breakneck".

These two channels complement each other perfectly, I'm so impressed with how Scott managed to balance them. For example, by changing the presence settings on the poweramp or EQing the module differently I can get the afterlife to become the breakneck and the other way around. But no matter what settings I choose, I've always got two delicately balanced rythm/solo-channels on tap. Even though Scott may be busy, I guarantee it is worth the wait, just amazing work and a great guy to deal with as well.

This is the UberSchwarz!! :twisted:

For your GAS only..

Nice module by the way. Scott does great work.

 

[tschrama]

Look, I absoluetely respect the efforts the comemrcial modders. Moreover I would never want them to hurt in any way.

That being said: If I what to build a module, based on a another modded-module (Bogner, Diezel, Marshall .. you name it)... by looking at the guts, tracing the schematic, I do nothing different than what that modder did in the 1st place.

 

[suphuckers]

Well the fact of all this is... Everyone thinks it's fine to copy someone else's work/circuit until it's their circuit being copied. Unfortunately it has to be this way. Otherwise progress will come to a screeching halt. I personally designed a few circuits a while ago, and didn't bother to try to sell them. Why would I put all that work into them only to see someone else make them and sell them for $20 less? That's why when I do bother to sell stuff... I usually sell it at the $20 less price right from the start. Then it's not worth the other guy doing it himself. Bottom line.. Getting rich off of this kind of stuff (for most people) simply just isn't going to happen. People should just accept that.

 

[tschrama]

No, What I'm saying is.... What's the difference between copying an amp wire for wire, and copying a module wire for wire?

Nothing.

Or more simply put... What's the difference between copying a wheel spoke for spoke?

Nothing.

Find me a Modder that's never copied someone else's circuit "resistor for resistor", and I'll agree with you. Fact is, that human doesn't exist

I can't answer this (even though it's not a question). That would be on that individual's soul. All I can say for myself is - it's not right. I, personally, see a difference between bringing a tone to the modular level and straight up copying a schematic wire for wire. Maybe I'm wrong, I'll give you that.


Myself, being in manufacturing, trying to be on the cutting edge to stay in business, having things stolen, copied and reproduced in China and sold at 20% the cost... this concept is close to my pocketbook.

Then you must hate those module-modders that sell Bogner, Diezel, marshall modules ........

 

[drewiv]

No, What I'm saying is.... What's the difference between copying an amp wire for wire, and copying a module wire for wire?

Nothing.

Or more simply put... What's the difference between copying a wheel spoke for spoke?

Nothing.

Find me a Modder that's never copied someone else's circuit "resistor for resistor", and I'll agree with you. Fact is, that human doesn't exist

I can't answer this (even though it's not a question). That would be on that individual's soul. All I can say for myself is - it's not right. I, personally, see a difference between bringing a tone to the modular level and straight up copying a schematic wire for wire. Maybe I'm wrong, I'll give you that.


Myself, being in manufacturing, trying to be on the cutting edge to stay in business, having things stolen, copied and reproduced in China and sold at 20% the cost... this concept is close to my pocketbook.

Then you must hate those module-modders that sell Bogner, Diezel, marshall modules ........

They are selling a tone, not an exact replica sold as the real deal. I'm not arguing with you.

 

[suphuckers]

...and sorry for the double post but.

I personally appreciate other people's work, and have bought several "new" modded modules. My point in all this is tho... People should stop with the baby **** back and forth about this. Anyone with a soldering iron and a module in hand can add or remove whatever wire/resistor they wish. ...and like was previously stated, if they are looking at what someone else did, they are pretty much doing the exact same thing the other guy did in the 1st place. end of story. Move on LoL

 

[suphuckers]

I have a great SG Module here that I just bought a few weeks ago. There isn't ANY goop on it. That guy has my respect, and if I need a new module at some point, my future business too.

..and LoL @drew I always wanted to win the internet Thanks!

 

[drewiv]

..and LoL @drew I always wanted to win the internet Thanks!

That wasn't directed at you, but you can win the internet too.

Hey, I understand both sides. I personally believe there is a difference in bringing an amp tone to a module and directly copying another module. Maybe there's not, wtf do I know.

Yes, the modders are "copying" to an extent, BUT I've seen the inside of a Bogner Ecstasy, SG XTC, Salvation Xtacy and JF XTC. A) the modules look nothing like a Bogner. B) the modules look nothing like each other. C) all four sound a bit different as well. In my mind that makes them all a bit different.

 

[blacksun]

The way I see it, simply put, is that it is all about trust. The modders are not coorporations with separate sales, marketing and development departments etc, but for the most part just talented individuals offering their service for not that much dough. Thanks to these modders the mts thing has evolved to the best thing out there IMO, actually combining versatlility AND true tube tone. Last week I sold my Axe fx 2 XL, simply because it couldn't compete with a M4 loaded with custom mods. In the end it is all about tone.

Handing out their painstakenly conceived schematics then just isn't an ethical option.

 

[Jaded Faith]

I totally just remembered why I have removed myself from internet forums for the most part... :roll:

Goop sucks. I hate it and wish I didn't have to do it. It's a waste of my time and my money. You know what else wastes my time and money? Some A-hole either trying to figure out a circuit they couldn't figure out how to build in the first place or thinking that because they own a soldering iron they know how to use it. The bottom line is goop sucks and a few village idiots made it a necessary evil. You don't have to deal with the repair requests when dishonest people ruin products and try to pass it off on some poor guy second-hand. I do. Until you can promise that headache stops, the goop stays.

For the record, I'm no genius or protecting magical secrets. Hell, I work on about 300 non-MTS amps every year in my shop. Never a need for a single drop of goop there unless I am using silicone to secure new filter caps.

Regarding what goes into making a replication of an amp, it's far more than copying a schematic wire for wire. There are lots of variables to consider starting at the common shared input stage in your MTS amp all the way through to the power amp, circuit voltages and beyond. It's not just cloning a schematic. Go try to make your own Engl module off of any of their schematics and let me know how that worked out for you.

The bottom line is it's a free market. If you don't like it, don't buy it. If you have the skills to DIY and you are confident in your talents, knock yourself out. How hard could it be right?

 

[tschrama]

Directed at me? You got me all wrong......

I assume you must be afraid to lose business when you schemo's or gut shots leak out. Aren't you afraid that you, Bogner, Diezel, Engl lose business because you offer a module for 350$ so they don't have to buy their 3300$ real amp?

Besides that, you can build these modules, because others painstakingly trace these boutique amps and document them on other forums.. or did you trace them all yourself?

Bogner protects his designs by not given out schemo's, as Engl and Diezel does with their incomplete schemo's; Marshall's are so cheap there is no need to DIY... You protect your design with goop. It's all fair.. But if someone wants to try an trace one of the modules, for his own personal pleasure, to base his own mod on, that's no different that what the commercial modders do, except not trying to make a profit.

...besides that...I have nothing to add to showcasing yourself like you just did..

 

[blacksun]

Although good to see there is still some activity and life on this forum, this thread was intended to bring forth something positive - truly one of the best modules I've ever had, and I have been through far too many

I'm sorry someone even thought of inappropriately asking for gut-shots, but I urge you to order one instead, you will not regret it!! 8)

 

[Mattfig]

this place is getting way too serious....

Here, this should help...

 

[blacksun]

this place is getting way too serious....

Here, this should help...

Is it the RackOfDoom residing there in the background?? :wink:

 

[blacksun]

This is the Ubershall tone that I love: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMIReP7-zaE

And the afterlife/breakneck delivers :twisted:

 

[drewiv]

This is the Ubershall tone that I love: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMIReP7-zaE

And the afterlife/breakneck delivers :twisted:

It's a little heavy for my old @$$, but rock on if it's what you dig!

 

[Mike P]

Directed at me? You got me all wrong......

I assume you must be afraid to lose business when you schemo's or gut shots leak out. Aren't you afraid that you, Bogner, Diezel, Engl lose business because you offer a module for 350$ so they don't have to buy their 3300$ real amp?

Besides that, you can build these modules, because others painstakingly trace these boutique amps and document them on other forums.. or did you trace them all yourself?

Bogner protects his designs by not given out schemo's, as Engl and Diezel does with their incomplete schemo's; Marshall's are so cheap there is no need to DIY... You protect your design with goop. It's all fair.. But if someone wants to try an trace one of the modules, for his own personal pleasure, to base his own mod on, that's no different that what the commercial modders do, except not trying to make a profit.

...besides that...I have nothing to add to showcasing yourself like you just did..

What a bunch of nonsense.

Every so often, some jackhole signs up for this forum and starts asking for "gut shots" so they can copy a modder's work. Personally, I find it highly objectionable and ban-worthy but hey, that's just me.

Adapting an amp's sound for the MTS amps is not a simple "cloning" job. You can't just trace an amp or obtain a schematic, then build a module exactly as specified. It's far more difficult and time consuming than just "cloning" and there is IP involved, whether you realize it or not (and based on your responses, you clearly don't).

As to your assertion that MTS modified modules are somehow "hurting" the business of Bogner, Marshall, et al, is misguided. Or are you asking the people at AXE FX, Kemper, Native Instruments, Peavey, Line 6 and IK Multimedia the same question?

There is artistry involved in creating an amazing sounding module and that should not be shared for free, under ANY circumstance.

 

[suphuckers]

Rob,
(And then I'm out of this discussion, and I don't care to argue this really)
If the real reason you goop is because of returned modules, the answer isn't goop. The answer is don't repair modules that people didn't buy directly from you without charging a fee. If you're charging a fee than my question to you would be, who the hell cares? Charge your fee and deposit it in your acct.

Anyways back to the point of this thread, and I already said this, but my SG module is pretty awesome as well. Quality product!

 

[Mike P]

Rob,
(And then I'm out of this discussion, and I don't care to argue this really)
If the real reason you goop is because of returned modules, the answer isn't goop. The answer is don't repair modules that people didn't buy directly from you without charging a fee. If you're charging a fee than my question to you would be, who the hell cares? Charge your fee and deposit it in your acct.

Anyways back to the point of this thread, and I already said this, but my SG module is pretty awesome as well. Quality product!

Rob is adding the "goop" so that "gut shots" won't expose his work for people to copy.

 

[tschrama]

Directed at me? You got me all wrong......

I assume you must be afraid to lose business when you schemo's or gut shots leak out. Aren't you afraid that you, Bogner, Diezel, Engl lose business because you offer a module for 350$ so they don't have to buy their 3300$ real amp?

Besides that, you can build these modules, because others painstakingly trace these boutique amps and document them on other forums.. or did you trace them all yourself?

Bogner protects his designs by not given out schemo's, as Engl and Diezel does with their incomplete schemo's; Marshall's are so cheap there is no need to DIY... You protect your design with goop. It's all fair.. But if someone wants to try an trace one of the modules, for his own personal pleasure, to base his own mod on, that's no different that what the commercial modders do, except not trying to make a profit.

...besides that...I have nothing to add to showcasing yourself like you just did..

What a bunch of nonsense.

Every so often, some jackhole signs up for this forum and starts asking for "gut shots" so they can copy a modder's work. Personally, I find it highly objectionable and ban-worthy but hey, that's just me.

Adapting an amp's sound for the MTS amps is not a simple "cloning" job. You can't just trace an amp or obtain a schematic, then build a module exactly as specified. It's far more difficult and time consuming than just "cloning" and there is IP involved, whether you realize it or not (and based on your responses, you clearly don't).

As to your assertion that MTS modified modules are somehow "hurting" the business of Bogner, Marshall, et al, is misguided. Or are you asking the people at AXE FX, Kemper, Native Instruments, Peavey, Line 6 and IK Multimedia the same question?

There is artistry involved in creating an amazing sounding module and that should not be shared for free, under ANY circumstance.

I can't let these personal accusations go; so just to clear some wrong assumptions:

1] I did not sign up to get gut shots. I signed up because I am shifting my mod platform from cheap jcm900s to cheaper MTS. I also wanted to participate in the classified correspondence. Furthermore I was hope for technical discussions. I am still amazed by the lack of technical discussion over here...

2] I still can't see how asking for a gut shot is immoral as the commercial modders themselves need these as a starting point. But I am perfectly fine with a simple " no- I rather not " .

3] I don't think it is that difficult to adapt a module for a certain sound, I am confident about my own abilities. But maybe that is just because I am so fanatic about the circuit design of amp since my youth. But I am still interested in how other achieve their sound and I am happing to participate in dialogues about that.

4] I am not asking if MTS is hurting other businesses. I was asking if commercial modders do when they themselves fear of being copied.

5] I did not say, and I don't think that artistic efforts should be shared for free. Neither do I think that asking for sharing is immoral.