Suggest me some modules! Pt1 (Modern Rhythm / smooth Leads)

[Skyze]

Ok, Im pretty positive im taking the dive for MTS gear. I was super close to buying a Carvin Legacy II because of how great the cleans and leads were, but the rhythm channel was super lacking, so I did an extensive 6 hour amp research session, which led me to the only way to get the 3-4 tones I want in one amp will be these MTS's.

That being said, Help me figure out what modules I should start with! Ideally, Id like to get close to perfect within my first 4-5 modules, Im hoping I wont go thru 30+ of them just to find the tones im looking for, so I'll try to be as descriptive as possible.

For signal path, I will be using mostly Ash/Alder bodies with Maple neck/fretboard, Duncan or BKP pickups (passive), a Carvin T100 6L6 tube poweramp (maybe a Mesa 20/20 soon), into closeback 1x12 or 2x12 with Eminence Lil'Texas (subject to change if it'll help tone).. pedals for reverb/mod/delays, but dont want to use any overdrives to get my amp tone if possible.

RHYTHM #1 - THICK, CLARITY, TIGHT, SMOOTH
This is tough, as there is two rhythm tones Id like to achieve. If I can get both on the same module, without sacrificing the tone of either, i'd be ecstatic. Basically wanting a classic rock Marshall on the lower-gain side, but then a Modern Hi-gain rhythm as the main tone. Mesa Mark IV, ENGL type of modern. Im talking THICK but TIGHT rhythms, thats the way I would use to describe it. From my initial research, the best one so far i've found is the Hilligan Scorch, but im open to hearing more options.

Keep in mind I also want a Thick and SMOOTH tone, im not a fan of that jagged, ice-pick Peavey metal tone. ENGL amps are probably the way I would describe it, without being as dark sounding. Slightly compressed, but still organic enough with clarity and note definition on the low end. (absolute lowest I tune is down a wholestep on 7string, so A).. My IDEAL (money-not-an-issue) rhythm amp is by far the ENGL SE

Youtube examples -

Nevermore (ENGL SE) - possibly my favorite rhythm tone of all time
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFU4ulcO6tM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10Jhymacjn4

Marty Friedman (ENGL SE again) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyVgC_o836g&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNA8vs-ywjc&feature=related

Porcupine Tree - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XO3GQvye2bQ

Symphony X - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oG11Y5DaALA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gi7rACkpXwg

Dream Theatre - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEGRmiRO56s

for the more standard Marshall tones, obviously stuff like GNR, Ozzy, Motley Crue, etc, but heres afew more Marshall-esqe tones I'd like to get

Megadeth - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9UeLylS_eA
X japan - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xR-khnY4wDI
Children of Bodom - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZw7Qw2x2dg&feature=related

Ok.. that about sums it up for rhythm, hopefully I can get something versatile enough to deliver something in that realm.. Even though I dont play much metal on my own time, its what gets me the most gigs, so its the important for live playing.

LEAD #1 - LIQUID SMOOTH, CUTTING, CLARITY, SLIGHTLY DARK
The lead channel is concerning, because I don't have too much experience with dialing in great lead tones. As I said at the first, I was super close to buying the Carvin Legacy, mainly for its lead channel. I have had little experience on a Bogner XTC but unfortunately only on the cleans, so I can't give a good comparison between the XTC, or Soldano SLO either, people say those are the 2 amps that outshine everything in the lead channels, wish I had a chance to try them.

As far as what I like in leads, I have difficulties explaining them also, but I will try to do my best. Smooth is obviously primary, I hate that ice-pick trebley lead tone (cant stand Slayer AT ALL).. I also want something that will cut thru the mix of a full band well enough to sound good. Clarity is important, I am a clear player and dont hide behind distortion, but I dont like thin sounding tones either, so has to be a good balance. I tend to enjoy slightly darker tones, ala Tony MacAlpine.

To give an idea of my favorite heavy-lead players; Steve Vai, Marty Friedman, Jeff Loomis, Tony MacAlpine, hide, SUGIZO.. those are the ones that come to mind.

Youtube Examples -

My absolute favorite, Marty Friedman (abit more piercing/dirty than I'd like, but still smooth)
About 10 of his solos - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcZkJcTJkJ8
http://youtu.be/DYmGY-SWDss?t=1m56s
http://youtu.be/BjmERdoYiks?=1m35s

MARTY AND STEVE VAI - amazing leads by both, but Vai's tone is more my style
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ho23LzQ6oxY

Steve Vai - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnjLyfj8nAg&feature=related
orgasmic tone - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erX2W4qT2vA
really just about any Vai song from Passion&Warefare going forward is godlike.

Jeff Loomis -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKiEj70YAj4
http://youtu.be/nb_GHbDCXyk?t=2m31s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ak6M4blISuA

Its hard to explain, but I play very melodically, not the "wanker" shred, so I like a tone that matches that human-singing quality. Keep in mind this is meant to be my more "metal" lead tone, but if I could get the same type of tone with the gain lower for a Greg Howe Fusion-like tone, that'd be great.. but Im planning on another module for that type of clean liquid lead.

Believe it or not, im not a huge Vai fan, its just his tone is the best in the business (in my opinion, for my ears)

anyways, Hope someone can help me out and recommend some good modules to help me achieve these tones. If its possible to get all 3-4 tones I want in one amp, I'd be beyond happy.

Stay tuned for Pt 2, where I ask about Clean modules!

 

[crankyrayhanky]

I played my buddies Legacy often- Gigmods XTC nails it, that's a must have IMO for what you're describing. Others offer versions of XTC I've never played, but Pete's version goes from clear PleXtC to that chewy hi gain Vai tone- no pedal required!

 

[I is be sexy]

This are relevant to my interests

 

[m0jo]

Ok for leads you are definitly wanting an XTC-type mod.

I have a stock one and like it for exactly those reasons.
Haven't played any modded ones, so I can't comment on that

Rythms: Salvation Mods does an Engl based mod, the Angel.
It's mostly based on the Fireball and such, but I think it applies to your question very well.

Check out these clips:
Clip 1
Clip 2 (remix of 1)

Or perhaps a Mamba?
Clip
Based on the Framus Cobra

 

[Skyze]

well my old bandmate has a Bogner XTC now, and he did come over to show me it afew months ago but it busted a tube on the way over so I couldnt try it out, but I did see him play it for afew shows earlier that week in a country band and the leads are amazing.. so hopefully next time hes in town Im gonna get him to bring it over again and I'll play the lead channel..

I'd trust that Pete's version of the XTC is similar to a real one, enough that maybe I'll invest in it, if no one has any other suggestions for a lead tone.

 

[crankyrayhanky]

Pete has a 2004 Bogner- he modeled it after the red channel. There's a few Blue channel mods out there too- less gain, more wholesome tone? Liquid compressed sustain is that Gigmod XTC forte...Vai city

The Salvo Angel would give you Engl tone, you may want to request if he can tailor it towards the SE.

I don't think the Mamba is what you seek- too much abrasion for your fusion love.

The Salvo Dave/Marty module would be very much up your alley- I think there's one for sale in our classifieds.

 

[sepherus]

Yeah there was a Custom 3 up for sale last I checked. It is based off the CAE 3+ pre amp. Seems like a really cool mod, and it has that marshally vibe, but I'm sure it can get pretty modern sounding too.

 

[JKD]

When I think smooth, fusion lead tone...I'm thinking of Egnater COD or maybe even the old Randall Ultra Lead.

I found the XTC and Custom 3 to be quite bitey but the XTC really sings out when cranked.

Favorite XTC mod? Hilligan Snorkeler by far....don't know if it's smooth enough for you but it's certainly very musical and chewy!

I know I'm always pimping this but:

http://mtsforum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?t=8214&highlight=hilligan

If you like ENGL, it's certainly worth trying the Angel....mine is a keeper for sure...for reference I owned 2 Powerballs, 2 Blackmores and an SE previously and it's definately in the ballpark.

The SE has so many options it'd be hard to say which one it's closes to, LOL but although the Angel is tight, it's definitely not so compressed and mechanical sounding as the Powerball.

 

[Skyze]

From my research so far, Hilligan's work always sounded the best to me (although that Salvation Angel sounded pretty amazing).. but Hilligan being on our side of the pond makes me interested in trying him out first.

I know hes a busy guy, so does he do mods other than the "standard" ones he already made? Basically like, if I wanted a Scorcher, with a tad difference to it to make it have an almost XTC/SLO like lead quality to it, would something like that be possible? Or does he just crank out his standard mods? I mean, the guy isn't a fulltime MTS modder like the others, he works on his own amps, so I just wanna know if I could customize abit more before I bug him with questions.

Do you guys think its possible to maybe even combine the rhythm tone I want (basically a scorcher I think) and Vai-like soaring leads on one module? I know it'd have to be with a toggleswitch, rather than MIDI switchable, but least could tie me over until I can pick up more modules in the future. My clean tones are almost more important than anything atm, but i'll make that thread later today =]

 

[Skyze]

lol from the looks of these, if I plan on getting 4-5 of these modded modules, its gonna be like $1500 but I guess thats the price to pay for versatile tones. I just dont like the guessing game part of it, where theres so many people suggesting modules and you never really know if you'll dig it until you get it in your hands. Like any gear (I fell for the peavey trap afew times, never understood why everyone suggests them)

So far, its looking like Hilligan Scorcher, Salvation ANGEL, and Gigmods XTC are the frontrunners.. Maybe a Salvation Custom3, although it sounds abit too marshally with not enough modern for me. As much as I love Marty's leads, they are always a tad grainy, where as Vai's gets that soaring quality while maintaining clean definition in each note.

So any more suggestions to get a Vai like lead tone?

 

[JKD]

lol from the looks of these, if I plan on getting 4-5 of these modded modules, its gonna be like $1500 but I guess thats the price to pay for versatile tones. I just dont like the guessing game part of it, where theres so many people suggesting modules and you never really know if you'll dig it until you get it in your hands. Like any gear (I fell for the peavey trap afew times, never understood why everyone suggests them)

So far, its looking like Hilligan Scorcher, Salvation ANGEL, and Gigmods XTC are the frontrunners.. Maybe a Salvation Custom3, although it sounds abit too marshally with not enough modern for me. As much as I love Marty's leads, they are always a tad grainy, where as Vai's gets that soaring quality while maintaining clean definition in each note.

So any more suggestions to get a Vai like lead tone?

There's always the garbage clips on my youtube channel...even if I can't play for **** with the camera over compressing stuff to make it all sound the same...

I never even thought of the Scorcher for your main rhythm tone...it's a great heavy tone.

 

[Skyze]

lol from the looks of these, if I plan on getting 4-5 of these modded modules, its gonna be like $1500 but I guess thats the price to pay for versatile tones. I just dont like the guessing game part of it, where theres so many people suggesting modules and you never really know if you'll dig it until you get it in your hands. Like any gear (I fell for the peavey trap afew times, never understood why everyone suggests them)

So far, its looking like Hilligan Scorcher, Salvation ANGEL, and Gigmods XTC are the frontrunners.. Maybe a Salvation Custom3, although it sounds abit too marshally with not enough modern for me. As much as I love Marty's leads, they are always a tad grainy, where as Vai's gets that soaring quality while maintaining clean definition in each note.

So any more suggestions to get a Vai like lead tone?

There's always the garbage clips on my youtube channel...even if I can't play for s*&t with the camera over compressing stuff to make it all sound the same...

Whats mainly annoying about that, is how much of the tone is the module, and how much is effects/processing.. Thats what im wondering about the audio clips on Salvation's site, they sure sound great but im sure they are loaded with post-EQing to make them sound much better

 

[JKD]

No fx processing here, just an attack of the noodles, first clip is too quiet though:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_NKDCL-PlI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGOmFmvm0vM

 

[Skyze]

thanks,

Do you feel the modded XTC can cover standard Marshall/80s classic rock tones too??

Know what I'd really love to have.. is one module that can do the ENGL/Mesa thing really well, and have a decent lead option on it for soloing (toggleswitch), and then have another module with a extremely nice SLO/XTC type liquid lead sound, but also able to back the gain off for a decent Marshall crunch.. That way, I could flip them around as a Rhythm/Lead in a 2 channel amp, depending on if im playing classic rock types or modern metal.

 

[crankyrayhanky]

I've had many modded modules, I'll say that Salvo's clips are stellar- and the modules really do deliver the goods in person. Mastering limiters I'm sure bring the tune up to level, but I'm guessing no eq tricks are needed on the base guitar tones. Salvo's demo tracks does a great job of keeping verb and fx to a minimum (if any) to allow the tone to shine through.

I know my philosophy is not to "fix it in the mix"; I disdain adding eq on guitar tracks in the studio - aside from a slight hi pass slope around 80-120 to ward off any mud

Yes, if you acquire a bunch of modded mods you're paying big prices for your rig- so if there is 1 amp out there that you'd love to have, go get it. But I love the custom tones our modders put out, and every time I put in a new mod it's a refreshing inspirational moment.

As for Vai, I hate to go down this road, but if there is 1 guy whose tone is in the fingers... Vai and Satch could plug right into a production line Marshall 1x12 and rip it out.

 

[Skyze]

As for Vai, I hate to go down this road, but if there is 1 guy whose tone is in the fingers... Vai and Satch could plug right into a production line Marshall 1x12 and rip it out.

i'll kindly disagree with that statement, sure they will sound good thru any amp, but theres a difference between TONE and SOUND.. Tone is strictly what the signal path is, while SOUND is what a player can do with his fingers. Steve Vai may always SOUND like Steve vai thru any other amp, but the TONE can be drastically different. Listen to Vai's 80s records (Flexable) vs his 2005 Real Reflections tone, its quite drastically different.

Thats also why I said I wanted any Vai tone from "Passion and Warefare going forward".. thats when he stopped playing marshall/x100B's and started playing Bogner XTC and the Carvin Legacy, and his tone is significantly more clear/smooth.

If tone was just "in the fingers", no one would buy anything past a krank 15w practice amp and a squire bullet. Theres a reason people like Vai go thru months of designing an amp like the Legacy (with Ben Fargen even), and its not just to look cool on stage.

 

[Jaded Faith]

You may be interested in my latest XTC. Like the real deal, it offers a Plexi mode, Red/Blue modes and the Structure switch. There are so many tones in it that you are sure to find all that you are looking for.

Drop me a line for details.

Rob

 

[crankyrayhanky]

As for Vai, I hate to go down this road, but if there is 1 guy whose tone is in the fingers... Vai and Satch could plug right into a production line Marshall 1x12 and rip it out.

i'll kindly disagree with that statement, sure they will sound good thru any amp, but theres a difference between TONE and SOUND.. Tone is strictly what the signal path is, while SOUND is what a player can do with his fingers. Steve Vai may always SOUND like Steve vai thru any other amp, but the TONE can be drastically different. Listen to Vai's 80s records (Flexable) vs his 2005 Real Reflections tone, its quite drastically different.

Thats also why I said I wanted any Vai tone from "Passion and Warefare going forward".. thats when he stopped playing marshall/x100B's and started playing Bogner XTC and the Carvin Legacy, and his tone is significantly more clear/smooth.

If tone was just "in the fingers", no one would buy anything past a krank 15w practice amp and a squire bullet. Theres a reason people like Vai go thru months of designing an amp like the Legacy (with Ben Fargen even), and its not just to look cool on stage.

True...especially Ultra Zone- that's very Legacy smooth toned vs the biting Vai of yesteryear
Alright, I'll flip flop! Buy some mods!

 

[Skyze]

one of these modders really needs to buy a Carvin Legacy II and copy it to the tee.. if I could have all the Carvin Legacy II tones, and add in a modern rhythm, I'd be set.

Legacy cleans, ENGL rhythm and Legacy leads.. drool.

 

[BigBrewtus]

one of these modders really needs to buy a Carvin Legacy II and copy it to the tee.. if I could have all the Carvin Legacy II tones, and add in a modern rhythm, I'd be set.

Legacy cleans, ENGL rhythm and Legacy leads.. drool.

+1 8)