The ULTIMATE Overdrive (Really)

[kc2eeb]

This will take:
1-RM50
1-RM4
Plug your guitar into the RM50 input.
Plug a cord into the series send jack.
Plug the other end into the RM4 input jack.
Plug a cord into the pre-loop output of the RM4.
Plug the other end into the series return jack of the RM50.
You can now cascade one of the two modules in the RM50 through any one of the 4 modules in the RM4 and back to the RM50.
You get:
Sustain for days.
O.D. from Hell.
Pinch harmonics.
Bluesbreaker "Beano"
SRV
Ice Pick Treble
Woman tone
Do I make myself clear?
You heard it here first.
Pat L. Bluesball

 

[kc2eeb]

I'd like to know what you think. Anybody?

 

[Jaded Faith]

Have a spare RM4 you could send for me to try it out? :wink:

 

[LoD21]

What type of pickup are you using in the guitar? How hot is it?

 

[kc2eeb]

The pick-ups are a set of Lindy Fralin strat pick-ups. They're not hot at all,
standard output.
You can think of it this way. You're using the first module as a way to give the guitar the output level of active pick-ups and then hitting the next module
with a much higher input like you would with a boost.
You could even use any other MTS amp as I'm using the RM4, like an RM20,
just take out the output tubes.
Gotta get back to work. Be back to-night.

 

[Julia]

Hmmm... this opens up a lot of possibilities....

Guitar > Lynch Box Grail module > Preamp out > X-Amp (for the -15 db PAD and ground switch) > input of 5150 II lead channel > send > Poweramp In on Lynch Box or just plug the speakers into the 5150, and send small children screaming to their mothers. Let's see, this would be.... NINE gain stages! Ya think this would be enough gain? or would I blow up something?

Just dime out the Mr. Scary and hit it with a Keeley Java Boost. A little transistor clipping goes a long way. Cheaper and less risky.

 

[kc2eeb]

Not risky at all.
An actual Vox Top Boost, for example, is an added gain stage with the
bass "filtered out." A Dumble "Overdrive Special" or a Fender "Super Champ" are simply added gain stages.
What you're missing is how you can dial in all kinds of different tones and
harmonics, NOT by maxing out all the pots, but by setting up the first module for the tone and drive you like and then feeding that into the second one, picking where you want the overdrive to occur.
When you use an OD pedal you're "stuck" with the tone the pedal maker decided to give you.
If you want to try it, start with the module 1 set as you like, have the gain
on module 2 off, master vol. at 9-10 o'clock and bring the levels up slowly.
Another example.
In '71, I had a Dual Showman Reverb that I wired to do the exact same thing I'm doing here.
I wired the normal channel, going from the wiper of the vol. pot to the input of the reverb channel. Worked so well, someone stole it from me.

 

[Shinozoku]

It kinda makes sense, as it's not like you're running from power amp to preamp. IF you try plugging a standalone power amp like an ENGL E530 into a cab, it'll be really quiet. Same with just a distortion pedal. So it doesn't SEEM like it would hurt anything... I'd still be skeptical to try it though.

I wanna see somebody do it for an extended period of time first

 

[Julia]

there's a whole lot of doors open.... seriously....

recently I pulled my old boutique overdrive and fuzz pedals out. Some are very versatile. I can cascade the gain stages of these into one another and then go into a moderately overdriven amp.

The Keeley actually thrives on an overdriven amp. It's a treble booster and when in front of a gain at noon Brahma give me a Dio years Black Sabbath tone, depending upon the guitar (single coils, actives, PAF, high output passives) and then there's the volume knob, pick attack. With the switch flipped one way into a JTM, I get early Clapton. In the middle it gives me pretty much a mid-heavy overdrive. In the left position, it's a mild germanium fuzz, which is where teh Black Sabbath tones come in.

Then I've got a Skreddy Screw Driver which has a Mosfet + a cascading silicon into a germanium transistor. It can be a full out distortion pedal, germanium dirty boost, cascaded fuzz, or a treble boost. Very versatile.

Then there's the Muff type. And cascading this into one of the above gives a blown speaker sound depending upon the characteristics of the module.

All true bypass and go into the final TS808 overdrive, which I'll engage (drive at 10:00) for a lead boost into the straight module.

Tons of different tones. And my Mustang allows me to put my pickups out of phase for that hollow partially depressed wah sound, and this changes the characteristics of the module and all of the above.

We can get our tones different ways, and it all depends upon how you want to get them. Transistor clipping doesn't bother me.

What you're doing is not really any different than running a Mesa V-twin Preamp into the front of the amp, which I've done on a Marshall JVM. The gain got to be too much. It got out of control.

but you've got me on cascding the gain stages of two amps together. I've not done that before.

 

[salvation]

This will take:
1-RM50
1-RM4
Plug your guitar into the RM50 input.
Plug a cord into the series send jack.
Plug the other end into the RM4 input jack.
Plug a cord into the pre-loop output of the RM4.
Plug the other end into the series return jack of the RM50.
You can now cascade one of the two modules in the RM50 through any one of the 4 modules in the RM4 and back to the RM50.
You get:
Sustain for days.
O.D. from Hell.
Pinch harmonics.
Bluesbreaker "Beano"
SRV
Ice Pick Treble
Woman tone
Do I make myself clear?
You heard it here first.
Pat L. Bluesball

I never tried it, and I mya be wrong, but I presume that it must sound terrible and unusable
Some good overdrive do better job, IMHO.

Anthony

 

[kc2eeb]

Just try it.
Remember, the idea is not to max out all the gains, it's to use different levels of overdrive and pick the frequencies (bass, mid, treble)
you want to emphasize. If you max everything out, of course, it will be too much.
If you're worried about blowing fuses, reason this out.
Until the signal gets to the output tubes, you are basically increasing the voltage (AC) of the guitar signal, millivolts to volts. But you have very little current. The output tubes take the signal and together with the output transformer "transform" it into the the current needed to drive the speakers.
Playing one preamp into another is not going to suddenly draw a lot of current.
You are NOT taking the speaker output and re-inserting it into a gain stage.
Right now, I'm not able to record some sample sounds so you can hear
it, but I will eventually, and post the clips.

 

[kc2eeb]

Has anyone tried this? Anybody?

 

[Julia]

I said. I ran a Mesa V-twin Preamp -- (this is a triple switched preamp == it's a two 12AX7 floor preamp) -- into a Marshall amp on the lead channel. It was way too much. I tried it into a Fender HRDv clean channel and it was an instant rectoverb. I tried the "clean", "blues", and "solo" settings on the Mesa.

This is no different than what you're suggesting. It's too much gain.

 

[kc2eeb]

O.K. Never mind. When I get something recorded, I'll post it.
Meanwhile, if anyone would like to try it, start wit the module volumes
low and play with it. Remember the tone controls are "volume" too!