Are MTSers afraid of MIDI and switchers?

Discussion for both Egnater & Randall modular amps

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suphuckers
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Post by suphuckers » Sat Dec 06, 2014 1:10 pm

That thing I posted wont work that well for you withmittens
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MarcoR
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Post by MarcoR » Sat Dec 06, 2014 1:43 pm

withmittens wrote:Whoa, whoa....I got behind here

that is a lot of input to digest and I need to read it again but I can say a couple of things after first read

1. $600 is too much for me to spend on this
2. The RM50 has no midi so will need to be switched via an analog switch, possible triggered by midi the main midi thinger?
2. I've been looking at this piece. but I'm not sure if it does everything. I mean i know it will take care of my RM4 switching needs but maybe not the pedal patches....http://www.ebay.com/itm/171570181739?_t ... EBIDX%3AIT
3. nothing goes in my loop except the RM4. all pedals are pre input

sorry if I've taken us back a bit, as I said, this is new to me and I need to go back and re-read everything. thanks for the great info
Here's a Ground Control on Rigtalk for $250:

http://www.rig-talk.com/forum/viewtopic ... 6&t=162827

And here is a MidiMate on Rigtalk for $89:
http://www.rig-talk.com/forum/viewtopic ... 6&t=162947

That and the GRX4 I posted a link to would total $239 and accomplish the minimal requirements to toggle the preamps and switch channels on the RM50.
I don't know those sellers so use your own discretion but you might be able to talk them down.

I can verify that the GRX4 can switch channels on the RM50 as I tested it last night. This thread inspired me to put together a mini rig for jams, practices and small stages. It will just cover the most basic minimal needs if I have to do a gig where transporting my big rig is not practical.

I'll try to video some of the process...
Synergy: SYN2, Friedman DS, HBE
Self Modded: Egnater B'Man, SL2X
Amps: VHT 2/50/2, RM50, Landry LS100 G3, Splawn Quick Rod, Marshall 6100LM

Corium_AZ
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Post by Corium_AZ » Sat Dec 06, 2014 1:49 pm

The voodoo labs control switcher will do the channel switching on an RM50, via midi... I bought one of these while experimenting with a bunch of other non-midi amps. On the shiva I had, it provided switching for the clean/dirty channels, reverb & boost functions, all via midi from my tonelab. I just stuffed it away in the headshell, so the only cables required from my pedalboard to the amp were guitar line in & midi. My only quibble was that I needed to provide power for it...
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Corium_AZ
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Post by Corium_AZ » Sat Dec 06, 2014 1:50 pm

Band Sites (Until The Sun)
http://www.reverbnation.com/untilthesun
https://www.facebook.com/UntilTheSunBand

Budda Superdrive 45, Orange Rocker 30, Zinky 4x12, '72 Deluxe Tele and MIJ Greco LP Custom

withmittens
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Post by withmittens » Sat Dec 06, 2014 10:36 pm

yeah this board of great. thanks for all that, everyone. It/;s going to be good.. back with issues/questions after I've gotten something together
RM22, RM4
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MarcoR
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Post by MarcoR » Sun Dec 07, 2014 6:30 am

Synergy: SYN2, Friedman DS, HBE
Self Modded: Egnater B'Man, SL2X
Amps: VHT 2/50/2, RM50, Landry LS100 G3, Splawn Quick Rod, Marshall 6100LM

j4q0
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Post by j4q0 » Sun Dec 07, 2014 10:57 am

A question on the GRX4, How do access the loops on the unit without a midi
controller?
After reading the manual it seems that to activate the loops one needs the CC message to be sent from a MIDI (foot) controller, only then the combination of on/off status for each loop can be stored as a preset inside the GRX4, is this correct?
Perhaps I'm not understanding the manual correctly?

withmittens
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Post by withmittens » Sun Dec 07, 2014 11:08 am

will the midimate do it alone? switch between RM50 and RM4, select pre's and allow for a few pedal patches?

I think no, right? although maybe this since it has midi and analog switching
http://www.rocktron.com/patchmate-loop-8-floor.html

ok, I think I understand. I need 6 or more trigger outs for selecting preamps, 1 a/b for selecting RM50/RM4, and 4 or so pedal loops. all in one unit

does this sound correct?
RM22, RM4
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j4q0
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Post by j4q0 » Sun Dec 07, 2014 12:11 pm

Witmittens,
If you only have pedals/fx infront of the amp (either RM4 or RM50) you are good with a looper like the patcmahte floor 8 or anything similar, since it will let you put in/out of the signal any pedal/fx you have in any combination you want granted that the unit can do patches which means it can activate on/off several loops with pressing just one button on the unit, I'm pretty sure they all do that since that is the premise of having one of those units.

The GRX4 will work as an A/B switcher controlled via MIDI (in this case controlled by the patchmate floor 8) or you can get a simple A/B box that can be activated via MIDI like one of these:

http://www.rjmmusic.com/ynot.php
http://lehle.com/IT/Lehle-Dual-SGoS

But at that cost it's probably a better deal to get a used GRX4.

I'm looking to do the same thing as you with the only difference that I don't have pedals, I have a rack FX processor and the foot controller needs to have buttons dedicated to turn on/off those fx.
I basically want to be able to be in any channel of the RM4 or my 5153 and be able to turn on/off any effect I want or need regardless of the preset configuration I'm in at one given moment.

Found these units too:
http://www.loopersparadise.de/en/pro.php?p=186
http://payne-labs.com/joomla/index.php? ... &Itemid=29

These are like the GRX4, the main difference being one has 4 jacks for activating the functions of your amp, and the other unit has 2 instead of 4 jacks but has a spill over function that would be very handy for delays, although you wouldn't be using that as your FX are before the amp, so you wouldn't be using these units for your fx... or you can put your delay unit in the loop after the RM4 (which is already in the FX loop return of your RM50)

I like the option of turning on/off the loops in these units with the buttons on the units themselves for easy programming.

trimix
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Post by trimix » Sun Dec 07, 2014 2:30 pm

withmittens wrote:will the midimate do it alone? switch between RM50 and RM4, select pre's and allow for a few pedal patches?

I think no, right? although maybe this since it has midi and analog switching
http://www.rocktron.com/patchmate-loop-8-floor.html

ok, I think I understand. I need 6 or more trigger outs for selecting preamps, 1 a/b for selecting RM50/RM4, and 4 or so pedal loops. all in one unit

does this sound correct?
The Patchmate Loop 8 Floor will not do it alone for the simple fact it won't generate MIDI program change messages for your RM4 channel selection by itself. It has 128 MIDI presets, but you can only directly select the first 8 on the unit itself and even those 8 don't send a corresponding program change to it's output when selected.
I already had a big old Rockman MIDI program selector from my 80's rig so it didn't stop me from integrating the Patchmate as a loop switcher/channel switcher/preamp selector.
I use it to select from two outputs on a stereo wired guitar, bypassing a buffer in front of the pedals, bypassing pedals before the preamps, and which preamp those pedals will feed. I use it for channel switching my non-MIDI amps. I use it for selecting which preamp feeds the power amp input, bypassing pedals in the loop between the pre and power amp, and bypassing a buffer after those pedals. You need to have a looper with separate in/send/return/out for each loop to do all that, especially if some of it needs to be in stereo. Trade-off for me is I need a separate MIDI controller, but I don't have to worry about ever putting the looper into preset mode and it always has 8 individual on/off switches/LEDs for every function within each preset. WYSIWYG.

Image

j4q0
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Post by j4q0 » Sun Dec 07, 2014 2:57 pm

That's interesting Trimix, do you know what is the purpose of the MIDI out of the patchmate floor then?

I haven't read the manual of the patchmate floor as it wasn't an option for me, and I just assumed it would send program change messages through the MIDI out.


EDIT: Trimix is right, I just read the manual of the patchmate floor and it doesn't mention anything about generating/sending MIDI messages. The only thing it mentions about the MIDI out port is for the MIDI dump procedure to another unit.

This explanation also suggests that there is a MIDI THRU port instead of an OUT as far as I understand:
"MIDI out/thru: Use this jack to plug into the first MIDI controllable device in your signal chain."

MarcoR
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Post by MarcoR » Mon Dec 08, 2014 9:47 am

j4q0 wrote:A question on the GRX4, How do access the loops on the unit without a midi
controller?
After reading the manual it seems that to activate the loops one needs the CC message to be sent from a MIDI (foot) controller, only then the combination of on/off status for each loop can be stored as a preset inside the GRX4, is this correct?
Perhaps I'm not understanding the manual correctly?
You do need a midi controller regardless but you can either use it with program changes alone or sending control changes to active the loops. You can?t use PC and CC commands simultaneously.

If your controller only sends PC commands, you just select a switch on the controller and use the program button on the GRX4 to select the loops you want active then press and hold the program button to save as a preset. Super easy.

If you want to use each loop for an instant access switch, you need to have it in CC mode. Then you would need a controller that sends CC commands. If you want to create presets, the midi controller would also need to have the ability to save presets.

So basically it?s either save presets on the GRX4 in PC Mode or save presets on your controller and have instant access switch functionality.

To set the mode, you hold down the program button on power up until it blinks three times, then select the mode; no LEDs lit is PC mode, loop 1 LED lit is CC mode for the first GRX4, loop 2 LED lit is CC mode for the second GRX4, and so forth... You can have up to four GRX4 units linked.
Synergy: SYN2, Friedman DS, HBE
Self Modded: Egnater B'Man, SL2X
Amps: VHT 2/50/2, RM50, Landry LS100 G3, Splawn Quick Rod, Marshall 6100LM

j4q0
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Post by j4q0 » Mon Dec 08, 2014 12:27 pm

Thanks Marco,
I did understand that. However, what I'm not understanding is: Say I want to save presets on the GRX4. I set the GRX4 in PC mode and its presets will respond to the MIDI controller's PC messages. Now, how do I set what loop is or isn't active in that preset? Is there a button to turn it on/off on the GRX4?

In any case, regardless of how to program the GRX4 it seems my solution. :)

MarcoR
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Post by MarcoR » Mon Dec 08, 2014 12:37 pm

j4q0 wrote:Thanks Marco,
I did understand that. However, what I'm not understanding is: Say I want to save presets on the GRX4. I set the GRX4 in PC mode and its presets will respond to the MIDI controller's PC messages. Now, how do I set what loop is or isn't active in that preset? Is there a button to turn it on/off on the GRX4?

In any case, regardless of how to program the GRX4 it seems my solution. :)
Yes, there is one button that is used for everything. In the case that you have (in PC mode), you would press the program button and increment through the possible combinations until you get the LEDs to light up on the loops you want on. Once you get to the combination you want, you press and hold the button for a few seconds until it blinks to save.
Synergy: SYN2, Friedman DS, HBE
Self Modded: Egnater B'Man, SL2X
Amps: VHT 2/50/2, RM50, Landry LS100 G3, Splawn Quick Rod, Marshall 6100LM

Exoticwood
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Rm100 with RM4

Post by Exoticwood » Tue Jan 06, 2015 8:18 am

I can join in the conversation late and maybe I missed a post with the answer, but what I would like to know is how can I use an RM4 in conjunction with my RM100 so that I have access to all 7 modules?
I have a Midi controller (FX1) so what do I have to do to allow the Powell ramp section from my RM100 to work with four extra modules in the RM4?
Thanks
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