BBE Sonic Maximizer

[Hamner1]

It's me updating another old thread. :roll:

At anyrate, I came across what I believe to be a good deal on a 482i. I got it for $60, and it looks to be in good condition. I am in the process of putting it in the rack and would like some advice and input.

Would the best possible location be inline after the RM4? This is where I want to put it as it has 2 channels, might as well take advantage of that and I only have 1 RM4. Eventually someday a 2nd will be purchased. My thought is to run in this manner:
Guitar>pedalboard>RM4-Xpression(in parallel loop)-Post loop outs>channel A to channel 1 of poweramp & channel B to channel 2 of poweramp.

Also it has a switch on the back for 115v 50Hz & 115v 60Hz. Is there a reason to run it one way over the other? Currently it is set at 60Hz setting.

 

[Hamner1]

Quick update:
The disengage button is not a true A/B of your tone with BBE & without. Disengaged it made all of the modules sound like ****. After this I tried to A/B this way (not a true A/B but whatcha gonna do).
1st I played with the BBE run inline from the RM4 post outs. It definately gives some clarity and the chugging on the low E is definately "heavier" sounding. I had to tweak the Definition control on the Velocity 300. I think the Process control on the BBE & the Definition control on the poweramp kind of do the same thing. Sounded like crap. I turned the Definition control down from 1:30 o'clock to 11:00 o'clock. It sounds much better.

2nd I took the BBE out of the signal path. Just RM4 into the poweramp. It didn't sound quite right. I moved the Definition control back up to 1:30ish. Much better, but it was lacking the clarity and "heaviness" when chugging on the low E.

3rd I went back to including the BBE in the signal. Turn the Definition control on the Velocity 300 down again & it sounds pretty good. I still need to tweak. The high gainers sound pretty good, I think they can be better yet. And the Tweed has an edge (bite?) to it that I want to tame. Mainly just the high strings.

Here are the controls settings currently for the BBE:
Lo Contour: 11:30 o'clock
Process: 3:00 o'clock

I may have to mess with it more this weekend and try it in the series loop & the parallel loop. I also need to get a couple of patch cables so I can add the Xpression back into the signal. I know I have some, but I can't find the **** things right now. :evil:

 

[crankyrayhanky]

Process: 3:00 o'clock?
That sounds waaay aggressive in BBE to me

If I used mine, it would be
LoContour between 11-3oclock
Process 10 oclock

 

[HughJasol]

Process: 3:00 o'clock?
That sounds waaay aggressive in BBE to me

If I used mine, it would be
LoContour between 11-3oclock
Process 10 oclock

+1 . . .

When I had my 462 I ran it with Process set at 10:00-10:30 and LoContour usually around 11:00-11:30.

 

[Mattfig]

I just sold my BBE Sonic Stomp that I've used for years....You know why? I scored a Rocktron Pro-Q MIDI controllable EQ...Now I can tweak every module differently...It's like a programmable BBE...And at 125, you can't beat it...Yes, it's old...I think it was made in '87...But they're still out there and I can tell you they are better than BBE and almost as easy to use...

 

[antag]

I just sold my BBE Sonic Stomp that I've used for years....You know why? I scored a Rocktron Pro-Q MIDI controllable EQ...Now I can tweak every module differently...It's like a programmable BBE...And at 125, you can't beat it...Yes, it's old...I think it was made in '87...But they're still out there and I can tell you they are better than BBE and almost as easy to use...

Lucky - the ProQ was a GREAT piece of kit. I've always kicked myself for selling mine. Such a shame they don't make them anymore

 

[antag]

& FWIW, I use a BBE 482 with my RM4 (one of the older, US built units)

I have it in the series FX loop, Lo Contour 5?, Process 4? (or 12:30 & 11:30).

I run my Engl SE preamp into the other side of it (Lo 4?, Proc 2?)

I also have one of the newer BBE 362 units which with my Engl head. It sounds different - doesn't seem to "scoop" the mids as much. I've never tried it with the RM4, but IIRC I have it set quite differently (lo 4, proc 5) to how I used to set the 482 with the Engl (lo 3, proc 2).

 

[GtrGeorge!]

To be clear:
what a BBE does and what an EQ does is different. If you feel an EQ can do what a BBE can..good for you..but actually they deal with signals differently. My experience is with the rack BBE units..and they are quite good when used smartly.
Some guys tend to over use them...most users will agree a little goes a long way. And like alot of EQ/enhancement devices , novices will get into the novelty of over-using them and maybe not realize their signal is really getting odd..way beyond useful (to many people's ears).
Sure..in that case you take it out and its a shock....but thats not saying that your using it well..just that you are using alot of it!!!
And yes...tastes vary..thats understood.
I guess the bottom line is..the BBE is a nice tool, it can give a little clarity to a signal or just a little oomph in the low end. But most users I have met after a few years say..."Its cool,but I can definetly gig without it".."Its nice,...but not nescessary".
you wanted my experiences..there they are.
GtrGeorge

 

[felineguitars]

I use BBEs in all my racks and love them
Use them sparingly and you'll get the best result
My process is between 12 and 1 o clock
My bass is straight up
Turning them up too high sounds awful to my ears - like being in a wind tunnel

If you have a separates HiFi - try one between your CD player and amp - stunning!

What the BBE tries to do is to split the signal by frequency and delay the bass frequencies by a small amopunt to allow the treble frequencies to hit the speaker first (or at the same time as the bass) hence adding a percieved crispness.

Here's how BBE describe it:

Sonic Maximizer restores natural brilliance and clarity to an audio signal by the use of two integrated functions. First, it adjusts the phase relationships between the low, mid and high frequencies through adding progressively longer delay times to lower frequencies, creating a kind of mirror curve to neutralize the effect of loudspeaker phase distortion. Second, the Sonic Maximizer augments higher and lower frequencies as loudspeakers tend to be less efficient in their extreme treble and bass ranges. The end result is a dynamic, program-driven restoration which reveals more of the natural texture and detail in the sound without causing fatigue that is often associated with exciter effects, psychoacoustic processors or excessive use of equalizers.

 

[Mattfig]

To be clear:
what a BBE does and what an EQ does is different. If you feel an EQ can do what a BBE can..good for you..but actually they deal with signals differently. My experience is with the rack BBE units..and they are quite good when used smartly.
Some guys tend to over use them...most users will agree a little goes a long way. And like alot of EQ/enhancement devices , novices will get into the novelty of over-using them and maybe not realize their signal is really getting odd..way beyond useful (to many people's ears).
Sure..in that case you take it out and its a shock....but thats not saying that your using it well..just that you are using alot of it!!!
And yes...tastes vary..thats understood.
I guess the bottom line is..the BBE is a nice tool, it can give a little clarity to a signal or just a little oomph in the low end. But most users I have met after a few years say..."Its cool,but I can definetly gig without it".."Its nice,...but not nescessary".
you wanted my experiences..there they are.
GtrGeorge

Agreed...Maximizers and EQs are different animals....The Pro Q I have behaves like both though...It has a low, mid cut or boost and level, and high eq options...Then it has a "phase" option combines with "phase mix" that makes it's overall effect similar to that of a BBE with a litttle more tweakability...It processes the sound a bit, but I dig it's overall effect subtle though it may be...

 

[Julia]

I've used the pedal. And I use the plugin. I've NEVER turned either side past 11:00 or "4". It's just too much. But these days it sits in a box and I'll use multiband mastering plugs to put the finishing touches on a song.

 

[Hamner1]

STill running it inline from the post outs. Low contour at 11 o'clock & Process at 10 o'clock (4 & 3 respectively). It sounds better. I started to hear what everyone was refering to when the Process is turned up too much. It starts to sound harsh/brittle. I'll call it solid state industrial sounding. :lol: I may try to move the low contour up to noon to see if that brings out a little more Chugg on the low strings without getting mushy/muffled.

 

[GtrGeorge!]

While many audio devices have a phase button, it usually just reverses the phase (switches the polarity on 2 leads, is how its done almost always). And yes that is one definition of phase..there are others and from what I know, phase is not an absolute thing...and there is electrical phase...acoustic phase and so on.
No worries,though. If it sounds good TO YOU...thats all that matters.
GtrGeorge

 

[chacal]

I never find BBEs sounding good on guitar. Make it more difficult to cut in the mix. Maybe cos my sound is already very scooped...

Pretty good on PA systems tough, or for a quick mastering on a mix...

 

[audiomidijace]

Anyone know what the difference is between a BBE Sonic Maximizer and an Aphex 204? Couldn't you achieve the same or better results with a good quality 31 band EQ if you're preamp is lacking something? I've heard different opinions about putting stuff like this in your rig. Also read that a modded preamp shouldn't even need anything extra for tone enhancement. I've been considering getting a BBE or an Aphex but just interested in some more opinions.

Greg

Aphex 204/Exciter Vs. BBE 882i Sonic Maximizer

It is first important to understand the very different functions of both products. The Sonic Maximizer tries to solve a problem called ?Envelope Distortion.? This has to do with the time and amplitude relationship between the fundamental frequency and the harmonic components of the fundamental. The Sonic Maximizer attempts to ?time align? the fundamental and harmonic frequencies. What most users don?t understand is that this process is achieved by simply turning the processor on with both the Lo Contour and Process knobs set to zero! By turning the knobs up the user is simply boosting the processed low and hi frequencies along with any noise on the signal just like an EQ. If the high frequencies are boosted too high the unit actually compresses the signal, which completely destroys the perception of the time aligning process. At best, the user ends up with a boomy, crispy sound with boosted noise, a diminished stereo field and a boosted output level.

The Aphex 204/Exciter is made to improve the sound quality of high and low frequencies without adding to the overall output gain. The Aural Exciter brings out detail, clarity and imaging in the high frequencies, while the Optical Big Bottom adds deep, powerful, low-frequency punch and tighter articulation.
One of the reasons that the 204/Exciter works so well is that the input signal is sent directly to the output, while a tap from the input signal is processed and mixed back with the main signal. The user always has control over how much of the processed signal is added to the output.


Understanding the functions of the Aphex 204/Exciter


The Aural Exciter allows the user to select a high pass filter frequency between 800Hz and 6kHz. This is the function of the ?Tune? knob. Even harmonics are generated according to input transient frequencies above the high pass filter setting. The ?Harmonics? knob controls how much harmonic content is generated. The ?Mix? knob allows the user to set the amount of processed signal that is mixed back with the main input signal.

The Optical Big Bottom works in a similar, but different way, in that the input signal is sent directly to the output, while a tap from the input signal is processed and mixed back with the main signal. The Optical Big Bottom allows the user to select a low pass filter frequency between 50Hz and 190Hz. This is the function of the ?Tune? knob. Frequencies below the low pass filter setting are compressed. The ?Drive? knob controls the amount of optical compression on the signal. The ?Mix? knob allows the user to set the amount of compressed signal that is mixed back with the main input signal.

These simple parameters allow the user to truly sculpt the sound of any program material. The processing of the 204/Exciter undeniably improves the listening experience of any source! DJs can get the loud, tight bass that the dance floor requires. Bands can give their audiences the clean, detailed sound that they deserve. Preachers and Presenters can be sure that their message will get across with the added intelligibility created. All of this with hardly any gain added to the over all output signal.

The 204/Exciter also has a +4/-10 switch allowing it to be used properly with all analog gear on the market. DJ products, A/V products, professional studio equipment, professional Front of House equipment, etc.

 

[Hamner1]

In what has become my never ending tone quest, I pulled the BBE out of the signal path. Actully I pulled both the BBE & the MFX and had RM4 going strait to the poweramp. I have to say this sounded pretty good and allowed me to here the modules without all the added coloration. Then came putting the MFX back in the parallel loop. Man I like this... at least for now. :lol:

I dialed in the lead patch with the delay at 256ms & about 2 repeats (per mojo's recommendation) & I dig this for basic lead tone. I have a rythm patch that is ok, but I am missing something here. Back to the tweaking I guess.

Long story short, I'll be keeping the BBE out of the signal path for now.

 

[chacal]

good decision IMHO

I think sometimes in always searching for more and better we reach some kind of "too much". THe BBE gives more balls, more hair but in final we may find it is not what we needed, especially playing in a band...

just my 2 cents