Can't get my amp to sound good, ready to sell

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unconventional

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I've about had it with my RM4 RT2/50. I don't know what the hell it is. I think it's the room i have it in. Small room with wood floors. I have a small rug in there but whatever I do it sounds like crap.

I have a 2x12 cab with V30's in it and a 4x12 cab with vintage leads in it. I have the 4x12 so that only the top of the 4 speakers are working. When I hook the bottom ones up it sounds like dirt.

What I'm trying to do is get a good tone with my xiphos 7 string and the RM4 / RT2/50.

It seemed when I had the randall + the 2x12 upstairs in carpet room, it sounded pretty good. Now it only sounds good with either the 4x12 or 2x12 when I'm right in front of it sitting, however when I back away from it, it sounds like mud. I think I am just running the tone incorrectly.

I'm using EL34's as the Ruby 6L6's just sound too dark, with no clarity to them. The EL's are grooves on the A channel which have more bite and channel B had Ruby EL34's

I run the presence on max on the power amp and the density on zero. I'm starting to wonder if the deactivators in the guitar are the problem. I have them very high near the strings, but not so high the strings hit them. When I lower them I lose gain. I'm an EMG guy forever. This is my first guitar(s) both a xiphos 6 and 7 with deactivator passive pickups.

I'm just wondering what the hell the problem is. The room or what? I even put a baffle in the 4x12 and it sounded worse (separating the top and bottom speakers).

I have the 3 cap mod in the recto and the xtc with this mod.

Orange Drop 715 Series
.001?F / (on the switch)
Orange Drop 715 Series
.0015?F (on the switch)
Silver Mica Silver Mica 500pF (soldered to board)

I don't know which switch position is which. One seems to add too much bass, the middle, the 500pf steals a lot of gain and is not much good.

On the treadplate, I'm running the gain on 1:00, the treble on 3:00 bass and mid @ 11:00, level at 3:00

output on the RM4 is set at 9:00

Any ideas before all this stuff goes in the classifieds. I've about had it.

Thanks
 
When you say density on zero, that kinda makes me think that could be part of the problem...I noticed with d-activator pickups (I'm an EMG guy too) that the tone was just not what I wanted and ended up scrapping them and going back to EMGs. They just seemed muddy and would feel like they lost clarity at high gains when playing articulate parts.. weird to describe...
Maybe give those Beam Blocker things a try?
Try maxing your density or at least getting to the upper limits of it and then try your presence around 1'o clock -- compensating for highs with the treble on the modules.
You aren't running an effects unit or pedals that may be sucking tone?
 
I'd say you're sort of setting yourself up for failure using a 7 string guitar with massively overwound passive humbuckers and Celestion speakers in your cabinets. However, the problem may be a setup problem: I believe you are interfering with the pickups magnetic field by raising them up too high; you see, hot passive pickups need to be placed LOWER than a standard setup, because the magnetic field is so much stronger. So, you're not gaining treble, in fact, you're killing the treble response and getting nothing but mush. I use extremely hot passive pickups, and I know that I need to get the pickups pretty darn low in order to get them to not disrupt the magnetic field of the strings. Also, I think you're running your tone wrong: you're using too much low end. If you really, really listen to the albums of guys that play hardcore with 7 string guitars, you'll hear that the guitars really don't have any low end at all, but it's the bass that is adding all the oomph. Turn down those lows and mids and then your tone will become much clearer. I know that sounds like basic advice, but I'm amazed how often someone will turn their lows and mids up too high, and then complain that their tone lacks clarity :p . Well, I hope this helps you out a bit.
 
Guitar sits in the midrange....if you want clairity then you need more mids. The Density off will reduce overall power amp presence and density if not used togther. You are at both extremes presence floored and density off. Run them at 10 to 12 oclock. Never use all of something in the modular designs. Use both the module and power section to attain what you need. Also use the master on the module and juice the master on the power amps up to 2 or 3 oclock.
 
I too am an EMG fella but i decided to put SH-8 Invaders in my jackson and i thought for sure the'd kick ***, well they sounded like ***, to much bass to muddy and no clarity. Talked to few forums guys on Seymour duncan and they said lower the PUP, I didnt want to for the same fact that unconvetional mentioned, lack of distortion. But when i lowered it i gained a ton of clarity and definition back and even some attack, still hate the PUP but hey. I hated it so much that i thought it was the RM100s fault, I fought and fought with the amp, to the point of selling it. Im still fighting the jackson as its on its way out (1994 Jackson King V std. With Green Sh-8 invaders $300 shipped). I checked on the Randall forums on how RM100 users are setting up there rigs and to my discovery allot of them back the presence off to about 3 or 4 o clock and the density is often less than noon postition.

My amp was always so boomy when i had the density at full and the precence at full and making these minor changes and switching back to my Gibson flying v with EMGs, my amp could now kill an army. I too use V30s and i definatley have to watch the mids or they will scorch ear hairs in no time. And even with the precence down to 4-5 i still pull allot of treble out of the mix.
I use a modded TS-9 all the time as well but these settings still sound great without it, just bump the gain levels up.

Density-11 o'clock
Presence- 4.5 to 5 o'clock
Master- 2-3 0'clock with power soak or attenuator in the loop. kills rodents, small children, etc

1086- Mid switch R Gain Switch R
Gain 3 o'clock
Bass 12 o'clock to 2 o' clock
Mids 10 o' clock
Treble 3 o'clock
Level 1 o'clock

Rectified is very similar
Bass is at 1
Mid is at 8
Treble is at 3
Gain 3 o clock or less depending
Level noon
 
Isolate the issue: plug a different axe into the Randall, plug your axe into a different amp
 
Thanks Hunter. Problem is I sold off all my guitars and only have 2. Ibanez Xiphos 6 and 7. Guess what they both have in them? :lol:

I'm going to give it one last ditch effort. I'm replacing the deactivators with blackouts in the xiphos 7. Then I'm going to smash the deactivators. I'm not kidding either. I'm going to *****ng deactive them permanently. They are a low end muddy pickup and IMO they suck. I never really liked them from day one.

If that does not work, I'm selling the amp. I tried what was mentioned earlier and the gain sucks. I lowered the pickups in the guitar to about 5mm below the strings, put the density at noon and the presence at 3:00 and the recto module seems to have no life to it. Same for the XTC module.

Seems no matter what I do, there is no crispness to the tone. Sucks, I don't want to sell it.
 
get rid of those el34's and get some jj 6l6's biased at 35 ma. replace your pre amp tubes on the chassis with tad or ruby 12ax7 and experiment with tubes in the modules. then put those blackouts in or get some emg's in that xiphos. el34's are not for what you want to do. also your treadplate and xtc aren't the best high gainers out there by a long shot. pick up a 1086, a kh-3 , a modern, or an ultra / ultra xl. one more thing don't dime the presence on the amp keep it around 1- 4 o clock max, i usually sit around 2 or 3 o clock maybe four on my grail module. density is different but don't max it probably somewhere from 10 o clock to 1 o clock maybe 2 at the most. set your module volume around 11 o clock and adjust the master volume for overall loudness. if your playing with a band you may want to run your mater volume about 2- 3 o clock and then adjust your module for overall loudness either way you should be fine, don't give up yet , this a killer amp and will probably be the last one i buy cause its just that good :twisted:
 
I have the same problem with a set of Dimarzio Super Distortions, you've got to run those type of pickups pretty low to get good tone. Even so, they never seem to give the output of a pair of actives will, so you will always feel like they aren't performing.

Could also be the combination of the pickups and speakers, those same pups sound great in my little Classic 30 (open back) with greenback speaker, but muddy as hell through closed back Avatar with V30s.

By the same token, My EMGs sound kind of glassy through that same combo, but awesome through the V30s.
 
Yeah, active pu's boost the signal, so the magnetic field is actually quite low. The problem with overwound passive pu's is that they will never sound like active pu's: sure, they'll drive an amp like active pu's, but the tone will be passive. To simplify this: more windings = bassier tone. So, any overwound passive pickups, especially humbuckers, are going to have tons of bass and a general lack of clarity -- it's inevitable. I tried some GFS power rails in my Ibanez S, and they aren't bad, but I need to keep them low. I've sort of decided from experience that overwound humbuckers give an ultrabass sound no matter how you EQ. I agree that when you lower the pu's to a height where the frequency response is clear and the magnetic field isn't being disrupted, they lose a lot of their power (for obvious reasons). My advice is: get a set of neodymium passive humbuckers if you want to be super hot and have great tone; Ballurio is the only company that really seems to know what they're doing with neodymium pickups, but Qtuners look interesting, although I don't think they're any hotter than a standard humbucker. If you're willing to drop the cash, Ballurio will work with you to develop the pickups you've always wanted. I got my custom P90 from them, and I have to say that Keith Ballurio runs the most professional, knowledgeable, and player oriented guitar company out there. There is quite an extensive line of stock pickups that can save you cash; check them out here if you want: http://www.ballurio.com/BG/BGPickupIndex.shtml
 
Never had an issue like this with either my M4 or RT and My HO MCP pickups,They are Crystal clear and about as responsive as the EMGs I've tried,81/85 and both times got rid of the EMGs not saying the it's not the Dimarzios though,just diferrent strokes for different folks I guess,Hope you get this figured out cause you have a killer setup....
 
Yeah I don't want to lose the amp because of the pickups. I had the same problem with the mesa recto studio preamp. These pickups just seem to suck. I lower them and there's no F'N gain. The ultra module has way too much fizz with the deactivators it seems.

so you guys say no to ditching the rig. I wish there was someone in my area that could help out. I'd even pay someone, I don't want to sell this thing. One of the problems is that it was in a carpeted room where the sound was very compressed if you will.

Now it's in the basement in a room with wood floors. It's sort of more of a live type sound situation and I can't seem to grasp my hands around the tone.

How far would you lower the pickup from the stings?

Thanks for the replies guys. I like this place and like the stuff, seems rock solid, I just don't know WTF is up with my sound.

I think my perception of what it should sound like is flawed.

Here's the type of tone I like. course this guy sounds like he's scooping his mids a bit. Anybody else got any tone samples?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=4QaTI7zw5_0


Kevn
 
All my experiences with the D-Activator pickups have left me less than satisfied with them. :? They sound fairly lifeless to begin with so they're not doing your rig much justice anyways, IMO. I would swap the pickups out before switching your rig personally, as well as taking Hilly's advice regarding the presence and density. The extremes you have them set up for right now could be part of the issue.
 
unconventional said:
Yeah I don't want to lose the amp because of the pickups. I had the same problem with the mesa recto studio preamp. These pickups just seem to suck. I lower them and there's no F'N gain. The ultra module has way too much fizz with the deactivators it seems.

so you guys say no to ditching the rig. I wish there was someone in my area that could help out. I'd even pay someone, I don't want to sell this thing. One of the problems is that it was in a carpeted room where the sound was very compressed if you will.

Now it's in the basement in a room with wood floors. It's sort of more of a live type sound situation and I can't seem to grasp my hands around the tone.

How far would you lower the pickup from the stings?

Thanks for the replies guys. I like this place and like the stuff, seems rock solid, I just don't know WTF is up with my sound.

I think my perception of what it should sound like is flawed.

Here's the type of tone I like. course this guy sounds like he's scooping his mids a bit. Anybody else got any tone samples?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=4QaTI7zw5_0


Kevn
Click to expand...

no offense that tone sounds like ****. I gotta find a way to get my tone up, I'm more then sure it's exactly what your looking for. That tone you want sound's solid state POD 2.0 ****. BLAH BLAH BLAH. When he palm mutes it sounds like ****.... BLAH...

If you can't get a good tone outta your amp, it's your guitar. No-way the amp is the problem. Like said before, i've played a shitload of amps, was unhappy with every single one and then came upon the rm100 and was sold the first 5minutes i played it.
 
Well, I'd give lowering the pu's a chance, first. The best way to do this is to play an open string on your clean channel and let the note ring out, and then go up to maybe the 17th fret of the same string and let this note ring out. The decay times should be extremely close (obviously, the 17th fret will never have the sustain of an open note, but you know what I mean). Keep lowering until the two notes have very close decay times. Right now, your notes higher up on the fretboard probably die right away, no :p ? This will "open up" the sound, but you are going to lose some power. The bottom line with 7 strings is: don't let recorded media tones fool you: 7 string guitars on excellent recordings have virtually NO bass, and very little midrange (300-500). Just go to a recording forum and ask how you'd EQ a 7 string guitar; amid the "Don't use a 7 string guitar" respsonses, you might find a few professionals who will say to suck the bass and mids out of your signal. In my experience, most 7 string guitarists are looking for crushing power, but with a 7 string, EQing like Johnny Ramone is an excellent idea. I guarantee you if you added drums and a bass to the mix, your guitar would sound like absolute mush. I'm not trying to attack you, but there are a lot of misconceptions out there about getting good guitar tone, especially with extended range guitars.
 
tonymustang302 said:
unconventional said:
Yeah I don't want to lose the amp because of the pickups. I had the same problem with the mesa recto studio preamp. These pickups just seem to suck. I lower them and there's no F'N gain. The ultra module has way too much fizz with the deactivators it seems.

so you guys say no to ditching the rig. I wish there was someone in my area that could help out. I'd even pay someone, I don't want to sell this thing. One of the problems is that it was in a carpeted room where the sound was very compressed if you will.

Now it's in the basement in a room with wood floors. It's sort of more of a live type sound situation and I can't seem to grasp my hands around the tone.

How far would you lower the pickup from the stings?

Thanks for the replies guys. I like this place and like the stuff, seems rock solid, I just don't know WTF is up with my sound.

I think my perception of what it should sound like is flawed.

Here's the type of tone I like. course this guy sounds like he's scooping his mids a bit. Anybody else got any tone samples?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=4QaTI7zw5_0


Kevn
Click to expand...

no offense that tone sounds like s*&t. I gotta find a way to get my tone up, I'm more then sure it's exactly what your looking for. That tone you want sound's solid state POD 2.0 s*&t. BLAH BLAH BLAH. When he palm mutes it sounds like s*&t.... BLAH...

If you can't get a good tone outta your amp, it's your guitar. No-way the amp is the problem. Like said before, i've played a shitload of amps, was unhappy with every single one and then came upon the rm100 and was sold the first 5minutes i played it.
Click to expand...


Yeah I knew it was solid state. I was solid state in the past. I'm not use to tube tone really. I'm trying to find a happy medium between that super saturated tone in the vid and the awful midrange / bass bark / lack of clarity I got out of my amp. If you get a tone, email it to me and I'll host it. I do like Dino Cazera? (Can't spell his **** name) but it's tough to really get a hold of his tone with the band and tuning down to frign G on some of his songs. I tried to find something on youtube that was just rythm. too many frign shredders and no rythm players anymore it seems.

I played with the pickups a bit and actually listened for once in my life and realized how sh(tty they sound. They really do suck if you ask me. But I learned that there is a fine line between clarity and mud with the passives. So I got it where the pickup is as best as it can sound but the gain is just not there. So blackouts it is and I swear to **** I am going to smash these. I'll even film it.

Next was removal of the castors. That was 40% of the problem. For some reason, castors on the 4x12 and 2x12 on the wood floor was a major contributor to the problem. I'm still finding I have to max out the presence almost full but have the density cranked. I got a semi usable tone now out of the LAME XTC and TREADPLATE. Two mistake modules.

So I need to find 2 more modules that don't SUCK. I have the Ultra purchased from some guy on here. It's got some sort of a mod I think. Orange cap? Is that considered a mod? I mean it's got no switch or anyting but that module is alright with the 6 string, but seems to have a lot of honk to it.

I'm a fussy ******* ha? LOL

I hear raves about the kirk hammet tone and those modules. If it's anyting like what I hear on the black album, I don't want it. So don't know if that's out or not, being there are 3 to pick from.



If I could get my amp to sound like this, I would be happy. Honest.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vq1VIpkemyo
 

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